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Nihal

Nihal

Valar Lord
The thing is: Our characters can't read minds.

From my point of view Baldhart reaction not only was right but it was in accord with what she knew. No character knew Algernon well enough to deduce what was going on his mind, and their actions are simultaneous. That means Mauve's spell outcome didn't happen until the next turn. Given her history with them Baldy had a good reason to believe she had a high chance to fail, and if she did she would be alone in the water. That's why I think Baldhart wasn't being stupid in jumping into the water with a fish-Mauve-on-steroids, she jumped to the side of a human Mauve who was being left behind.

Since Algernon mentioned no plan and our characters do not possess our knowledge, Mauve jumped in the water assuming they would fight. She needs water to use the spell, and to "breath". If she waited them to reach the shore she would waste time and be in danger of being hit by an arrow.

Also, I don't how the other character's actions nullify the women's actions and determines they had the torch. Why the "shooting" has priority over the swimmer actions? I mean... you're saying the others hadn't the torch because they did X or Y, but I don't see how this X or Y has priority over our character actions—as if ours aren't important enough to justify not having the torch—, forcing one of them to have the torch and being selfish in jumping the water. They have exactly the same chance of having or not the torch. In truth we should have determined it before the fight, but everyone overlooked the detail.
 
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Legendary Sidekick

Legendary Sidekick

Staff
Moderator
You do realize this can be won, right? (1-2 dead, 1-2 wounded, depending on Alin's target) And that being discovered and letting the lizards live has potential disadvantages. And if the plan was to get lizards to chase, note Baldhart sinking like a stone! I do NOT want swimming monsters to chase, and with the boat at maximum capacity, I see little merit in an 8-minute round trip to change the party. What if the lizards also made a change and we had a larger group with bigger lizards? (green border = weaker ones)

But never mind my opinion on that, I was being true to my character. Baldhart fails her Goddess of Battle, she loses that eternal reward. So if the boat left her to face five guys alone, she'd fight them. Cowardice—which Algeron's actions are perceived as by her, even if he had a brilliant plan—disgusts Baldhart. She expects allies to be predictably supportive.



EDIT - I PM'd Steerpike about changing Baldy's action as healing Alin was under the assumption she was moving slowly as the boat moved straight. Boat turning is gradual, and not failing Mauve or Bhrynhild trump healing Alin—though I'd have done both if I could have.
 
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Steerpike

Steerpike

Staff
Moderator
It doesn't really matter to me who has the torch. I don't think it reflects on the character. I only chose Mauve because Baldhart and Algernon were both rowing, Nodrick had already posted an attack with his bow, and out of Mauve and Aliron it made more sense to have Mauve with it. Having the characters handing it off before jumping in eliminated any selfishness of 'extinguishing' the light and besides that, it was somewhat comical. But you guys can put the torch where you like, or say that it is out and rely on the light of the stones from shore, whichever you prefer.

Also, I created a thread just today for rules discussions, so lets keep them out of the game thread. It does nothing but clutter up that particular thread and make it harder for people to follow the action. OOC comments there should be for purposes of clarifying your actions when they need them, or making short comments that are warranted in the game. They're not suited for debating rules or arguing about what can and can't happen in the action thread.

Which brings me to my last point - the game is loose in terms of rules, which tends to be nice for people who haven't played it and don't have access to the rules book, and also tends to work well for me when I'm spending 60 or 70 hours a week in the office and am more interested in simply maintaining a fun pace, letting the players RP a bit, and letting people have fun with their actions (which doesn't mean you won't get your butts kicked if you run into fish-demons that all have wallets that say bad mo-fo on them).

In furtherance of those goals, I'm not really inclined to entertain a lot of rules-lawyering, and I'm certainly not going to debate people on what should or shouldn't happen. If you have a serious issue, bring it up in the rules thread. If it's something that makes the difference between dead and live characters, and I agree with you, we'll retcon the action. Otherwise, it's just a note for future situations.

If you want a game where every aspect of what happens is heavily scrutinized under the rules of the game, physics, phrenology, or the movement of the stars across the heavens...well, you ain't in it.

Now, there is lizard tail to kick if I'm not mistaken :D
 
Nihal

Nihal

Valar Lord
I'm trying to kick their tails, I swear! I think I didn't escape from slipping and slamming into the wall this time. :<
 
Legendary Sidekick

Legendary Sidekick

Staff
Moderator
Frankly, I'm glad Steerpike said the white stones give off light. If it's a choice between (a) Baldhart's cannonball splashd the torch, only lizards and Mauve can see, Mauve rolled a 1, Baldhart accidentally impaled Mauve, Algernon crashed into a wall, you all drown or get clawed to death or (b) hey guys, forgot to tell you—the bad guys have a light source…

…(b) wins.



@Nihal, Baldy believes in Mauve. Jumping overboard was never intended as suicide.

EDIT TO SUPPORT ABOVE SENTENCE:
(which doesn't mean you won't get your butts kicked if you run into fish-demons that all have wallets that say bad mo-fo on them).
Click to expand...
If Baldhart sees one of those fish-demons, she'll say, "Sir, I believe that's MAUVE'S wallet."


EDIT II: @Sparkie, the above edit was typed to the Normal View song.
 
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Ravana

Ravana

Staff
Moderator
[By the way: @LS—apologies and retraction for a previous misstatement: you didn't have Baldhart handing the torch to Aliron. Steerpike did.]

•

[Remainder redacted, since I'm the only one here who isn't allowed to justify my actions, opinions, or thought processes.]
 
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Nihal

Nihal

Valar Lord
And Mauve was removing the last of her hindering pieces of clothing prior to the fight. That includes shoes, cloak, belt, backpack. Could be done with one hand, except that some of these items hadn't clasps or buckles, being improvised. In this case she was "busy" before they decided to take aim on the lizards. I say this because was under the impression you disliked our character actions and decided to out of the blue throw the torch to the mix—and into their hands—to reinforce your argument by making a villain out of them; and I didn't like it.

About the communication, if I remember well Baldhart asked for signals, and in some previous conversations it was implicit they would attack.

In any way, it would be awesome if we moved ahead on this.
 
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Legendary Sidekick

Legendary Sidekick

Staff
Moderator
I really don't want to get into out-of-character debates, but I think Mauve not saying anything makes sense simply because that's the way the character has been played. She takes selfless risks and is rather secretive about them.

What I mean by "predictably supportive" is that everyone does their part in the heat of battle and trusts allies to do the same. Every time a party member wavers, another gets hurt. There's been a pattern of that among the party, which almost caused deaths. As far as Baldhart is concerned, she'd rather die doing her part than survive because she fled while others did not. A fate worse than death is to fail her Goddess.

I can objectively say that every character has a perfectly good reason for what they did. I can also interpret your character as being selfish (for attempting to force a retreat that the majority didn't want) as you can with the female characters (for forcing the choice: cancel retreat or abondon allies).

I still fail to see how a retreat is strategic unless the plan was to cancel the mission. Coming back means facing the same ambush or possibly facing a worse one. If we can go back and regroup, so can the enemy. The difference is that by us showing up and running, we embolden the enemy. They send one back to report, he comes back with a couple of those red lizards that Baldhart can't kill in one hit. (She only failed to drop one green lizard in a single blow, then Nod killed it on the same turn with 1 point of damage.) At best we can come back with 6 instead of 5 if we move fast enough. I don't know if we were traveling downstream, meaning the round trip might be more than 8 minutes. If Baldy and Algernon take 6 minutes to come back then another 4 to bring the new group, we may have no way of knowing about the drowning naked wizard.*

*Dialogue will take seconds or even minutes. The party will NOT just hop in the boat without several dialogue posts.

(Not that I'm in charge of time-keeping, but I did for the Nissa conversation. My estimate is 7-8 minutes. I was keeping time with the plan to have her fade out if ten minutes by my count ended before the RP was done. I felt the time-keeping was fairly accurate since Nissa did most of the talking and I know how fast she talks, though of course it's Steerpike's time that would count for Aqua-Mauve as his accuracy or generosity can mean the difference between life and death.)
 
Nihal

Nihal

Valar Lord
Anyway, my dear companions on the other shore, don't let Aliron's shouted warn to slip by unnoticed. I'm curious to see their reactions, I wonder if anyone will go for a swim... *evil grin*
 
Ravana

Ravana

Staff
Moderator
Steerpike said:
Working on new map now. Been getting my butt kicked by work :)
Click to expand...

I remember when I was working as records manager at a firm, being oh so glad the work ended every day at the same time.…

Think I would have loved to be a lawyer—but I also know I would have hated practicing law. And there just aren't that many other ways to get that degree to pay off. :(
 
Steerpike

Steerpike

Staff
Moderator
Ravana said:
I remember when I was working as records manager at a firm, being oh so glad the work ended every day at the same time.…

Think I would have loved to be a lawyer—but I also know I would have hated practicing law. And there just aren't that many other ways to get that degree to pay off. :(
Click to expand...

Yeah, if there were other ways I'd probably get out of the firm and do it on the side. In fact, I may still do that one of these days :)
 
Legendary Sidekick

Legendary Sidekick

Staff
Moderator
Are Baldhart and Mauve strong enough to kill them with a Donkey Kong attack? If not, we'll roll the barrels back and forth to each other after we kill the last guy. I think the barrels kill you instantly, but if you jump over one you get 100 XP. Might be a good way to grind, as long as barbarians can make the jump without a DEX check.
 
Nihal

Nihal

Valar Lord
Hey, that's awesome! I considered attempting to intimidate them, but decided to block the way before so they wouldn't run away... Well, they ran, still, it's really good to know she can have this effect. "Avenging demon-goddess of fishdom" Hahaha!

P.s.: Although they might be mistaking her for the monster of the lake. Shhh, let she believe she can be powerful and scary!
 
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