Any Twilight fans?

[sara86]

If we all feel the books are so 'bad' then why have they had such success?

When you're writing a book how do you personally measure the success of the book once it is published, by sales? Reviews? Or by another method?

And which would you rather, have sales success or poor sales but other writers whose opinions you respect rate your book highly?

 

[The Blue Lotus]

I would rather have a book that is well done and recived.
But than again like I said, if someone liked it that is A-OK too.

I shall also point to William Hung, was he a good singer?
He had a record out!

If you push something hard enough with enough money the people will buy it... that is just life.

 

[Johnny Cosmo]

It's good that you can find appreciation for it, but I will have to direct you to the below site that may give you insight as to why some may bash it. As for the ones that do it just to follow a trend I cannot answer for them.

Reasoning With Vampires

That blog is actually a good guide on how not to write!

And which would you rather, have sales success or poor sales but other writers whose opinions you respect rate your book highly?

Respect, because it will no doubt build you a respectable career if you stick at it - even if it does take many years and many novels to achieve.

 

[Shadoe]

If we all feel the books are so 'bad' then why have they had such success?

It's very popular with teenage girls, who can identify with the main character. Possibly it also has to do with the fact that they've seen very little fiction, so have a less biased scale to judge the work on. I'm just too old to be interested in such a bland group of characters after having seen so many really good ones.

 

[Angharad]

Lots of things that have no value or artistic merit are commercially successful because they appeal to a certain group of people.

 

[Kaellpae]

Lots of things that have no value or artistic merit are commercially successful because they appeal to a certain group of people.

I.e. Lady Gaga and Kesha.

 

[Philip Overby]

I always have to preface everything I say with "I'm not a fan of Twilight, but..."

I understand why it's popular. If anyone figures out the 10-16 (or whatever it is) girl demographic, you my friend, can become very rich. Guess what? Most 10-16 year old kids, male or female, don't read. Unless they are reading "OMG FML" on Facebook or Twitter. If they enjoy it, then so what?

I hate Barney. But I understand why kids like it. I also don't like Justin Bieber. But I recognize he has some talent and people like that kind of stuff. It's called "having an open mind." This sort of elitism in that "my art is better than yours" is way too prevalent on the internet. Do the Star Wars prequels suck? To me they do. If someone else likes them, more power to them. I won't go on a rant about how much it sucks. (although I must admit Harry Plinkett rants about the prequels in an entertaining way)

This Reasoning with Vampires blog is the sort of thing that really annoys me on a base level. Sure, it can be funny in certain regards. I laughed at some of it. However, going line by line in someone's book and complaining about how bad it is just seems to reek of "Wow, you have too much time on your hands." I understand that people don't like bad writing. But Twilight found its niche and that's what all writers should be doing (and yes, I'm writing sentences that start with conjunctions, something she complains about. So shoot me.)

Do I like Twilight? No. Do I recognize that not all writing has to be high art? Yes.

 

[Chilari]

I haven't read Twilight and I don't intend to. I don't have time to read books that, by all accounts, aren't that well written. I'd rather read books that are well written and learn from them. I read books which people tell me are good, which include themes I am interested in, and which aren't inundated with overdone cliches. In fact recently I've mostly been reading historical fiction, because the last few fantasy books I started reading just bored me. They had the same duty-bound male leads, the same pseudo-feminist female leads who start out not merely uninterested in the male lead, but actively in conflict with him and end up sleeping with him. Maybe I'm just not finding the right books. Instead I'm writing the book I want to read.

As for why people bash Twilight? I think partly, it can be put down to cognitive dissonance: on the one hand, the book is a bestseller and has resulted in the sequels being bestsellers and the film adaptions being blockbusters; on the other, many readers do not like it, from the prose to the plot to the characters to the sparkly (expletive removed) vampires (particularly among those who see vampires as inherently evil, not romantic). Among writers in particular, there is the sense that "I can write better than that". The belief in one's own writing abilities, combined with the inability to get published or become a bestseller, conflicts with Twilight's high sales. The result is the Twilight bashing you see: people resent its popularity, and so deliberately look for reasons to justify their low opinion of it and attempt to convince others of the same.

Of course, cognitive dissonance isn't the only reason people bash Twilight. Some people dislike the way Meyers deals with relationships, or presents vampires. I have also heard Twilight described as "an insult to feminism," and Bella as "wishy-washy". I also think that people resent that some people, mostly teenaged girls, claim that Twilight is the best book ever, when there are a LOT of other books to be read which are "better" (though of course as with all things creative, quality is a matter of opinion).

Personally, one of the things that most irritates me about Twilight is hearing it described as fantasy, just because it has "vampires" and werewolves in it. Really it fits better under the name "paranormal romance" (but don't get me started on that). Fantasy, as I see it, relies on the fantastical. Invented worlds, unusual cultures, magics, dragons, and so on. Not that fantasy requires these elements, and I can see why Twilight has been identifies as fantasy - werewolves and vampires are occasionally elements in fantasy stories - but fantasy is so much more. The main point of Twilight, I gather, is the romance, not the fantasy. The vampires and werewolves could just as easily be metaphors for different types of humans. Fantasy can tell any story. It has a wide potential scope. It doesn't require magic or wizards or dragons or elves, but such elements are big hints. What I'm trying to say is, I can't tell you what fantasy is, but I know it when I see it. And Twilight isn't it. It paddles in the shallows, jumps over the approaching waves, but doesn't dive in.

 

[Philip Overby]

@Chilari: I think your criticism of Twilight is probably the best I've heard. You make good points about where a lot of the negativity comes from. I think the most telling point you make is this:

"The belief in one's own writing abilities, combined with the inability to get published or become a bestseller, conflicts with Twilight's high sales. The result is the Twilight bashing you see: people resent its popularity, and so deliberately look for reasons to justify their low opinion of it and attempt to convince others of the same."

Could I write the Twilight stories better? Could any number of people do it? Maybe. I don't know. I think it makes people angry when something they don't like becomes successful. The same as when in politics people get angry when whoever is elected their leader isn't the one they wanted. People rail against what they don't like.

That's fine. My concern is that when people bash something into oblivion, it's sort of like "What's the point?" If someone asks my opinion about Twilight, I just say "Eh...I didn't like it." I don't build a website so I can ridicule something just because it's poorly written and successful.

It's sort of like saying "Hamburgers are unhealthy and disgusting. You shouldn't allow cows to be slaughtered for our food, etc. etc. etc." I may answer, "Well, so what? I like hamburgers." Then the person just keeps ranting and raving about how bad hamburgers are. It makes me feel like the person ranting and raving has too much time on their hands to care that much about what I eat. If other people eat hamburgers because they enjoy them, good for them. If someone likes radish and tofu shakes, good for them. That's why I don't like extreme groups that want to force people of their idea of what "good" is.

But I must admit, your reasoning is the best I've heard so far. It sure beats "OMG Twilight is teh suck."

 

[Chilari]

I think it's unhealthy for anyone to get so obsessed with anything like that that they've dedicated a sizable chunk of their time and a website to it, whether in support of it or deliberately bashing it. That goes for Twilight, Harry Potter, individual celebrities, etc.

 

[Kelise]

Whilst in Northampton, my friend and I saw that there was a Twilight convention on. Thinking it would be a bit of a laugh, we went to have a look... and... left for the nearest pub (not that I even drink, because i'm 'odd') when we saw that people older than our parents were screaming at the young actors for them to take their shirts off. And were hyperventilating and such.

 

[JCFarnham]

So. I imagine I could enjoy the books, IF Bella wasn't the most damaging role model for young girls in the history of literature [Okay that's a bit of an exaggeration], some of the things I've heard teenage Twihards doing "in the name of love" makes me wish I grew up in a different era..

Now the movies?

I sat through two of them mainly because I had to accompany some friends and I found there was no substance in them what so ever. The first I saw of MovieEdward was that awful slow-motion, shirt flapping shot. Then there was Jacob taking his shirt off on account of a grazed knee.

I've really tried to appreciate the Twilight series in all its forms, I can even ignore bad writing, bad directing, bad what ever, but what I can't ignore is the terrible morals it instills in people who don't know better. I imagine this comment may get responses along the lines of Meyers was trying to portray a character who will do literally anything for love, but frankly, I'm not even sure she was TRYING to do this. I want to believe in her reasoning, I really do, but I'm slowly beginning to wonder about the writers sanity. It's unfortunate.

Maybe at 21 I've found myself with the morals of an old man

I can't however argue with Twilight's success. Good for her. Few can get their hard work published in the current climate, but in my opinion there are better much things out there in literature.

Just my opinion

 

[Xanados]

The first I saw of MovieEdward was that awful slow-motion, shirt flapping shot. Then there was Jacob taking his shirt off on account of a grazed knee.

That, good sir, made my day. I've never seen these movies but that scene alone, I imagine, tells you EXACTLY who they are aimed at. Teenage girls.

 

[myrddin173]

I read the Twilight books a couple years ago. The only good thing to come out of it in my opinion is that now I am free to talk about how horrible it is. (If you haven't read something you shouldn't bash it no matter how bad it is) I think the entire series is a blight on American Literature and all copies should be burned. Just so you know I am a total bibliophile and am against the destruction of books, and I still want the books destroyed!

 

[aderyn]

I've just written a blog on why I think 'Twilight' has been so successful on the market. Regardless what you think of it you cannot deny that. Basically I think it's because of the way Meyer developed the central character Bella.

Does anyone else have any theories?

 

[Kelise]

Does anyone else have any theories?

A lot of people who love Twilight don't read otherwise, or haven't read much at all since high school.

They don't want anything 'heavy' or detailed to read - they just want very easy escapism, and that's what Twilight offers them.

I do't hate Twilight, for the simple fact a very awesome co-worker began reading because of it. I recommended her other things similar (Cassandra Clare) and progressed her onto other things as she got used to reading.

Now she reads without recommendations, finds her own series to read and she's the one suggesting books to me. She called to say she read a whole book in a weekend a month or so ago - I'm very proud.

Anything that gets people reading isn't entirely awful.

 

[gerald.parson]

In some ways Twilight was a writing masterpiece. First off the story is simple, a love triangle. Mix in a werewolf and a vampire, natural enemies in many fantasy genre's, so there is your conflict. Bella is like damn near every women is, lacking in self esteem. Now before all the ladies jump my ass, you need only watch tv for 10 minutes and nearly every commercial is selling something geared towards women trying to make them more superficially beautiful. Anyway, so now with that main character, Bella, you just appealed to a HUGE demographic, young women and older women, and even some young adult women. I think statistically though 45% of her readers where ages 14-19 and 44% where 35-49, leaving 11% for all other ages. And like 90% where women. These numbers are not exact, but they are close from an article I read a little while back.
Essentially Bella is every girls fantasy life, low self esteem but getting attention. The book is easy to read, which doesn't make it bad, nor does it make it good, it just makes it easy to read. I personally didn't care for it, then again I am not the demographic it was geared too, so that doesn't matter.
The hatred towards the book and movies stems from its success. I can't and will not hate on her for that. She didn't force anyone to buy the book, it sold, in record fashion.
One of the problems Twilight faces, as do many other books that are successful, is aspiring authors don't get why these books take off and theirs sit on amazon with 32 units sold in 10 months. It's called a free market. Her ( being Stephanie Myers) biggest critics have been men, and other authors. Men, like myself, tend not to like it because it wasn't geared for us, so there for there is little appeal, nor was it intended for us, so that cannot be seen as a failure. Other authors tend to jump on the hate twilight bandwagon not only because of its success, but the lack of their own. Everyone is a critic, and we are afforded that right, but there is no wrong way to read or write a book. I personally don't care for it at all. But I wish I thought of it before she did lol.

 

[aderyn]

Anything that gets people reading isn't entirely awful.

I completely agree!

 

[Graham Irwin]

Anecdote:

My girlfriend and I were camping in Washington State with another of our friends. After we visited the Olympic Peninsula, I was terrified to learn that we would be driving through Forks, the town where the Twilight Saga was set. I refused to get out of the car as my usually normal and intelligent girlfriend bought Edward stickers and claimed they were for her sister. Likely story

 

[Anders Ämting]

I don't hate Twilight. In fact, I find it kinda fascinating. You know, as a phenomenon. It's somehow encouraging that something like this can sell millions of copies worldwide.

My own experience of Twilight consists of reading half the first book. Now, I honestly don't care about the unrealistic romance or that the characters are terrible people or any of that. I consider that at least somewhat subjective. Also, I do not fault people for liking these books. Lord knows I don't want people looking down on me for the stories I enjoy. So it's a romantic fantasy for girls. Sure, I can accept that.

But, good God, the prose. Most people who criticize Twilight will bring up the plot or the characters, but have you people seen the prose? I have never read any book as poorly written as this one in my life. Within those pages I found the single worst sentence I have ever seen in print. There's nothing subjective about this: It seriously reads like a first draft. This is something any editor worth his or her salt should have taken one look at and then sent back to Meyer with some revision instructions. I... I just don't understand how it actually got published in that state.

I think Stephanie Meyer's success is a result of some exceptional luck. That said, I'm not sure if it was exceptionally good luck or exceptionally bad. On one hand, she has sold a tons of books and earned a mountain of money on her writing, which I really can't fault her for since I have similar ambitions of my own. But on the other hand, I worry that this success did not benifit her development as an artist. I mean, if her first book got published and won her fame and fortune despite being so incredibly lacking, what reason does she have to put any effort into improving?