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Acolyte
Does anyone else here love Twilight? And why do people bash it?
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Any Twilight fans?
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Behelit
Lore Master
It's good that you can find appreciation for it, but I will have to direct you to the below site that may give you insight as to why some may bash it. As for the ones that do it just to follow a trend I cannot answer for them.
Reasoning With Vampires
Reasoning With Vampires
Ophiucha
Dark Lord
I like Breaking Dawn, in the same way that I like cheesy romances you can buy at the pharmacy. Which is what I've always considered the Twilight series. Cheesy romances you'd buy in that tucked away corner. Yeah, they're poorly written, but most of the genre is just as bad. At least they don't have enough sex to resort to humorous euphemisms for genitals. My favorites are "nonny nonny" (for a lady part) and "widowmaker" (for a gentleman's part). Nah, if I want to hate a popular vampire romance for it's bad writing, I'll choose Marked. Paris Hilton references and gratuitous 'hee hee's? Gag me.
The first three are sort of boring, though. At least the fourth has sex and some gratuitous violence.
The first three are sort of boring, though. At least the fourth has sex and some gratuitous violence.
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Kelise
Scribal Lord
Instead of answering why people bash it, I would gently ask you in return how much you read in general, and for what other titles you've enjoyed in the past.
Kate
Lore Master
Not a fan, I'm afraid. I tried, I really did, but I'll have to put this down to personal taste on things I don't want to get into here.
But I do find the level of its cultural impact utterly fascinating. It's always cool when books get into people's minds so deeply. I know the movies had a lot to do with that too, but you get my point. And Team Jacob, inspiration isn't an easy thing to come by. It's really great when you find something that moves you like that. There's always going to be a Twilight hater, for whatever reason. It's not going to stop you loving it, so who cares?!
I adore Buffy to a depth that's probably just wrong for a grown woman, and there's always a Buffy basher ready to argue with me about why I should think it's rubbish. Do I care? Nope!
But I do find the level of its cultural impact utterly fascinating. It's always cool when books get into people's minds so deeply. I know the movies had a lot to do with that too, but you get my point. And Team Jacob, inspiration isn't an easy thing to come by. It's really great when you find something that moves you like that. There's always going to be a Twilight hater, for whatever reason. It's not going to stop you loving it, so who cares?!
I adore Buffy to a depth that's probably just wrong for a grown woman, and there's always a Buffy basher ready to argue with me about why I should think it's rubbish. Do I care? Nope!
Worldbuilder
Journeyman
Well put. Twilight's not to my taste either, and there are a few things that really bother me about it, but as someone who gets pretty passionate about stories myself, I can't help but recognize a kindred spirit in many of Twilight's fans.
Mdnight Falling
Mystagogue
I'm a Twilight fan!!! team Jacob e.e he's just hot LOL. People bash it mainly for the whole romance aspect of it and the sparkly vampires LOL. When people think Vampire they think murder mayhem etc, not love.. though Anne rice kinda first made people see vampires as things other than monsters with the Vampire Chronicles, still ALOT of people don't approve of things they know changing
I myself think the sparkly vampire thing is a big off I would never use it myself but it worked wonders for Meyers so kudos to her! LOL. I researched the kind of vampire of Meyers based the Cullens on, and she pretty much has them pegged as their legends go. Which is another reason I like her so much cause she did extensive research on several "kinds" of vampire before choosing what the Cullens would be. Granted I think there could be more blood and gore, but the love story is beautifully written and I can read it over and over >^.^<
Dr.Dorkness
Lore Master
nope not a fan. those vamps are to sweet for me. plus the native americans are shapeshifters and not werewolfs as I originaly thought. I was disapionted but on the other side, it makes sence.
at any rate, I always hated vampire's (yet respected them) so Twilight does not have anything to do with that. It is just because I just adore Lycanthropes. XD.
Often at parties some fan of Twilight asks me: "What would you rather be? a vampire or a werewolf?" My answer (yeah you can gues): "A werewolf." The person who asked me: "that is unexpected, why?" Me: "Because when you are a vampire you always have a problem, a werewolf has problem just one night a month.
at any rate, I always hated vampire's (yet respected them) so Twilight does not have anything to do with that. It is just because I just adore Lycanthropes. XD.
Often at parties some fan of Twilight asks me: "What would you rather be? a vampire or a werewolf?" My answer (yeah you can gues): "A werewolf." The person who asked me: "that is unexpected, why?" Me: "Because when you are a vampire you always have a problem, a werewolf has problem just one night a month.
Kelise
Scribal Lord
Ouch.
I didn't mean it in a nasty way at all XD Oops. I simply meant that it pales in comparison when one reads a lot. My friend hasn't read since high school, and then read Twilight, and thought it was the best book of all time. I introduced her to a few other books to encourage her on - all kinds of reading is fantastic after all - and now she sees that while Twilight is entertaining, it's not exactly well written.
So I just wanted to know if the OP did a lot of reading, and what kind of books they read otherwise, so I could see if it was the same or simply a general love for Twilight, above other books
Kate
Lore Master
Kelise
Scribal Lord
At Dusk I Reign
Mystagogue
Never seen the movies, never read the books, but I'd guess the bashing comes from two quarters: those who resent the author making money (whatever the perceived deficiencies in the writing) and those, like me, who view vampires as foul dead things, parasitic necroscopic creatures who are an abomination to all that live and as such deserve a swift if not wholly painless death.
I've never quite got to grips with the whole 'romantic' vampire thing, but maybe that's because I've read too many of the wrong books to view them as heroes. Either way, who cares what anyone else thinks? You've only got one life, and as long as you're not harming anyone else you're free to watch and read whatever tickles your fancy.
Kate
Lore Master
Are you disagreeing?
Discussion time!
I absolutely agree with you. I just liked the tactful way you put it.
Ok. Opinion time. I get that people love the phenomenon, and I generally like that they do, for reasons I've already posted. And while I said I didn't want to get into why I don't like it.... I've changed my mind. So, Team Jacob, in answer to your question Why do people bash Twilight, this is why I do:
It may very well be the most poorly written book that I have ever opened (I'm basing this just on the first novel, the only one I've read). And not just for its simple style of writing. It's dull and uninspired prose, with countless grammatical errors (but really, I don't care too much about that one), awkward expressions and really cliched descriptions. The characters are two dimensional at best. Thematically, I base my dislike of it on the films as well, and also what else I know of the story from secondary sources.
Bella Swan is a terrible role model, and it worries me that so many young girls are being shaped by her. Her relationship is unhealthy, destructive to her and those around her, but she's so lost in her own codependency that she doesn't care. Edward is a violent, controlling jerk (keeping it PG here, but I had originally typed another word). Sure they love each other, but so do a lot of people in poisonous, violent and damaging relationships. At least Buffy fought back against her damaging relationship with her vampire, protected herself and her family and friends from further harm, and always maintained her self respect and dependence. Same with Sookie Stackhouse (and I'm basing this on the novels - the show does tells a different story). Like Buffy, Sookie understood that her vampire relationship was destructive, violent and in danger of damaging her and those closest to her. So she ended it. Sure, she loved Bill just as much as Bella loves Edward, but there are some things more valuable than love. Bella is the quintessential "battered wife" and she's celebrated for it and that, more than anything else about Twilight, is something that I hate.
I'm not overly impressed with the "type" of vampires we're looking at here. But I can forgive that as each different vampire text has it's own rules. But yeah, the sparkling thing is pretty lame.
Here endeth the rant.
Interesting discussion here. I've never read Twilight, nor have I seen the films. I did see the "Vampire Sucks" parody, and got a few laughs from it. Otherwise, I am uninitiated.
Several of you have referenced grammatical errors in the books. I am curious as to how this would have gotten past the editors at a major publishing house. Any ideas?
Several of you have referenced grammatical errors in the books. I am curious as to how this would have gotten past the editors at a major publishing house. Any ideas?
Dr.Dorkness
Lore Master
Hmmmm, I don't know how I should explain this very well. But I do not believe that the grammatical errors are real errors. Sure, it is not the way a Writer should write, but I believe they are there for description reasons. for example (yes I'm grabbing the twilight book of my sisters shelf.): "Like a vacant house -condemned- for months I'd been utterly uninhabitable" this should be: "Like a condemned house, for months I've been utterly uninhabitable." (I believe) But it does not fit in the context of the paragraph. The Twilight saga is FULL with these "errors".
I believe that is the reason it got past the editors.
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Kate
Lore Master
I agree with this and yes, I did hold poor grammar against Twilight in a previous post. Every creative writer uses technically incorrect grammar. Without it there'd be no way for writers to develop their unique rhythms and styles, there's be no art in writing. Grammatically awkward expression, however is a different matter and Twilight is full of it - wish I had the book on me to find an example to quote.
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Digital_Fey
Lore Master
When it comes to the whole Twilight debate, I prefer to sit on the fence. I don't side with the Twihards, but people who spend all their time bashing the books and nitpicking Meyer's mistakes are just giving the series more undeserved attention.
I think that, as mentioned earlier in the thread, the first three books are fine for light, mindless reading. (Breaking Dawn was the product of a sick, sick mind, but let's not go there...) Twilight itself managed to drag the genre a step higher than the usual bodice-ripping, blood-spilling vampire novel, and I think that's a good thing - it's a pity that the other books in the series spiraled so far out of control. Bella and Edward's relationship is so twisted and pathetic that it makes me embarrassed for my generation >.>
I think that, as mentioned earlier in the thread, the first three books are fine for light, mindless reading. (Breaking Dawn was the product of a sick, sick mind, but let's not go there...) Twilight itself managed to drag the genre a step higher than the usual bodice-ripping, blood-spilling vampire novel, and I think that's a good thing - it's a pity that the other books in the series spiraled so far out of control. Bella and Edward's relationship is so twisted and pathetic that it makes me embarrassed for my generation >.>
Meg the Healer
Mystagogue
While I did overall enjoy Twilight, I also agree that Bella did grate on my nerves for those same reasons. I actually liked Edward from the beginning - he (for the most part) realized just how unhealthy the whole situation was, but love makes you do crazy, crazy things. Is that an excuse - no, it's just what people say. Look at how many "real world" situations this encompasses. People will do the craziest, dumbest, and most self-destructive things for the people they love - that's just human nature.
While I'm glad that Twilight is the reason that got you into writing, Team Jacob, I hope that you will still have the love for writing after the Twihard phenomenon has passed. There have been so many other "teen" fantasy series out there that are so much better than Twilight which is what I think Starconstant was getting at.
So I'll admit that I read the entire series and even liked it for what it was. Would I call myself a fan - eh - maybe. Twihard - definitely not. But I play devil's advocate because I like to debate books and I can find the joy in the book and what makes it good as well as the faults in the book and what makes it bad.
Could it have been better? You bet. Did it get a new generation into reading again? You bet. Will this series even be remembered in 10 years? Only time can tell.
To a certain degree - Spike did try to rape her and I don't know many people who would become "friends" with their rapists, but Buffy had bad relationships all around - vampire and human. She did always keep her family first because that was what was most important to her (except season 6, but hey - she did just come back from the dead.....again). I think season 5 capture that the most with her best line in the series (I think). "If Dawn dies, we all do." That's just how important family was to her.
And now I've gone off topic
sorry!
Kate
Lore Master
To a certain degree - Spike did try to rape her and I don't know many people who would become "friends" with their rapists, but Buffy had bad relationships all around - vampire and human. She did always keep her family first because that was what was most important to her (except season 6, but hey - she did just come back from the dead.....again). I think season 5 capture that the most with her best line in the series (I think). "If Dawn dies, we all do." That's just how important family was to her.
And now I've gone off topic
Buffy is never off topic for me!
Oh yeah, Spike. I forgot about that awful scene. That does indeed disrupt my argument a little. Buffy did suck at relationships, even with humans, but she always tried to keep herself, and as you said, her family, safe in more than just a physical way. As for Spike's attempted rape.... Hmmmm..... this has really got me thinking.......
There's no justification and them staying close friends afterwards (especially their closeness during the Season 7 war) is weird in that light. Their sexual relationship always had violent undertones (remember when they first got together?!), but Buffy gave as good (or bad) as she got. Maybe, as a leader, she had to "get over it" so to speak, because Spike was her best fighter. But then again, she didn't need to be so friendly with him did she, and she eventually said she loved him.
She was never the weak, codependent submissive woman that Bella plays, and I think that still stands as the most important distinction between them. The attempted rape might serve to illustrate that everyone is vulnerable, and show her weakness in the position she was putting herself in (with her being the only one Spike could harm physically). I've no good answer as to how their relationship after that can be justified in character. Excellent point Meg!