Any Twilight fans?

[gerald.parson]

Meh. I have heard the "luck" argument before and don't buy. Thats like saying anyone that doesn't do well has bad luck. As far as the prose goes, I don't know. I mean, I know what you are saying, but the story spoke to a great amount of people, and thats all that matters. If you send your manuscript into an agent or publisher and they think your story is a mundane piece crap and reject it, do you think the argument, " But my sentence structure and grammar is fantastic!" will hold up? I don't. Truth be told there probably isn't a piece of literture we couldn't pick apart if we held it under a microscope. How many books has she written? Like 5 or 6? And she has sold like 116 million copies? I Don't think she is to worried about her development.

I find it odd I am actually defending Twilight, as I am one of those who simply did not like it at all, in the least bit. But, that being said I am in no position to offer more than my opinion in taste of books and why Twilight didn't do anything for me. Anything else may just be taken as malice, and put a black eye on any community I belong to, such as this one.

 

[Anders Ämting]

Meh. I have heard the "luck" argument before and don't buy. Thats like saying anyone that doesn't do well has bad luck. As far as the prose goes, I don't know. I mean, I know what you are saying, but the story spoke to a great amount of people, and thats all that matters. If you send your manuscript into an agent or publisher and they think your story is a mundane piece crap and reject it, do you think the argument, " But my sentence structure and grammar is fantastic!" will hold up? I don't. Truth be told there probably isn't a piece of literture we couldn't pick apart if we held it under a microscope. How many books has she written? Like 5 or 6? And she has sold like 116 million copies? I Don't think she is to worried about her development.

I find it odd I am actually defending Twilight, as I am one of those who simply did not like it at all, in the least bit. But, that being said I am in no position to offer more than my opinion in taste of books and why Twilight didn't do anything for me. Anything else may just be taken as malice, and put a black eye on any community I belong to, such as this one.

Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying Meyer selling all those books were due to luck. I'm saying Twilight getting published at all was due to luck.

If you send your manuscript into an agent or publisher and they think your story is a mundane piece crap and reject it, do you think the argument, " But my sentence structure and grammar is fantastic!" will hold up? I don't.

But that's just it. Let's be honest for a moment: Twilight is a rather mundane teen romance novel. Not only that, it's a very poorly written mundane teen romance novel. With vampires. Keep in mind, the reason we can publish books about vampires today is partially thanks to Meyer making it cool again.

This novel had so much going against it that, barring deals with infernal forces or Meyer's publisher having the power see into the future, sheer blind luck is the only thing I can think of to explain how it reached the printers.

Again, I'm not questioning the popularity of Twilight. But even if the publishers read it and saw genuine potential, they should still have told her to edit it to something approaching professional standards.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Again, I'm not questioning the popularity of Twilight. But even if the publishers read it and saw genuine potential, they should still have told her to edit it to something approaching professional standards.

It's entirely possible that they knew the prose needed editing, but also recognized that the story was going to kill with teen girls, and didn't want to wait another few weeks to put it out -- teen paranormal romance was already, at the time, becoming a big thing, and the rush to market may have been more important than putting out something that was "good" by some objective standard.

Why should they have told her to edit it? It was a huge hit. Would changing it have necessarily improved its sales?

 

[Sheilawisz]

After all that has been said in the world to praise or to attack Twilight, in the end the truth behind its success is that it's a good story that hooks many people, and really that's all- It's not brilliant writing, it's not great storytelling, it's not a deep, complex story to argue about for hours, it's just escapism that is pretty easy to read and that's it =)

Something else about Twilight is how absolutely twisted and mentally screwed the story and the characters are- That is another part of the recipe that makes it successful, or at least, that's why I like the movies even though I read only the first book.

A friend that I met in Youtube a few years ago told me that, in his opinion, Twilight was successful because it was a "Mary Sue Universe" so, how about that??

 

[gerald.parson]

Twilight is a rather mundane teen romance novel. Not only that, it's a very poorly written mundane teen romance novel. With vampires. Keep in mind, the reason we can publish books about vampires today is partially thanks to Meyer making it cool again.

It is mundane; to me, and you, and many others. It is also wonderful for millions of people. In the end the quality of the book is merely an opinion. Being poorly written doesn't matter to some people, other don't even realize it.

This novel had so much going against it that, barring deals with infernal forces or Meyer's publisher having the power see into the future, sheer blind luck is the only thing I can think of to explain how it reached the printers.

Not being a publisher, I can only assume they all have different standards, and I am sure we all can agree with that. I am not surprised it got printed, I personally read more small press and underground authors than mainstream, I have read books that have their and there mixed up more times than not, but, the story was pretty decent. I am not much of a grammar harp, I'm more of a story and substance kind of reader. But I personally believe there is not wrong way to read a book, so I guess in all fairness there isn't a wrong way to write one. ( by my standards) I have, a few times, come across books that are so tangled and caddywompus in structure that I had to stop reading. Twilight wasn't THAT bad for me in that regards, I just couldn't get into the story at all.

I think the big thing that bugs me is when attacks get personal towards an author or the "quality" of their work, and Stephanie Meyers and Twilight seems to be the hot target. Opinion's are one thing, we liked it, we didn't etc etc etc. But anything outside of that just seems malice, and I personally don't think it reflects well on an aspiring author or a community such as this one.
Not all of use are going to like the same books, or every book, but to label a book "the worst ever written" or " it should be burned", I don't know, 110 million sales is kind of hard to argue with.
If Twilight was sitting on a shelf unknown, collecting dust next to another book that know one knew about, would anyone have anything to say?

 

[Reaver]

Opinion's are one thing, we liked it, we didn't etc etc etc. But anything outside of that just seems malice, and I personally don't think it reflects well on an aspiring author or a community such as this one.

In all fairness, I don't think anyone has personally attacked Ms. Meyer or expressed any malice. So far it's just been the expression of opinions. I can assure you that I intend to keep it that way.

 

[aderyn]

But, good God, the prose. Most people who criticize Twilight will bring up the plot or the characters, but have you people seen the prose? I have never read any book as poorly written as this one in my life. Within those pages I found the single worst sentence I have ever seen in print.

Can you share that particular sentence? I'm interested.

 

[The Grey Sage]

My summary of Twilight: horrible writing, terrible plot, shallow characters, bad concept, boring read and a waste of time!
Even just the content is... I'm a vampire and I love a human... stupidity ensues... fin.

 

[Steerpike]

Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying Meyer selling all those books were due to luck. I'm saying Twilight getting published at all was due to luck.

It wasn't luck. A look at the fact shows that to be an untenable position. Meyer, who had never published a book before, received a three-quarter of a million dollar advance on the first Twilight novel, before a single book had ever been printed or a single marketing dime ever spent. I submit to you that no publisher shells out three-quarters of a million dollars to an unknown author as "luck," in the hopes it would pay off. The person who bought the book clearly thought she had a winner on her hands, and she turned out to be very right.

 

[Steerpike]

The writing in Twilight is mediocre. Anyone who thinks it is the worst written book ever has not read many books. I've read plenty that are more poorly written. The prose in Twilight is nothing spectacular - just mediocre stuff. It's not terrible. It is trendy to hate on it because it has become so popular (happens to an extent with any such phenomenon), and that underlies more of the criticism than anything.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

It wasn't luck. A look at the fact shows that to be an untenable position. Meyer, who had never published a book before, received a three-quarter of a million dollar advance on the first Twilight novel, before a single book had ever been printed or a single marketing dime ever spent. I submit to you that no publisher shells out three-quarters of a million dollars to an unknown author as "luck," in the hopes it would pay off. The person who bought the book clearly thought she had a winner on her hands, and she turned out to be very right.

I think he means luck in the sense that Meyer lucked into something that would sell really well. From the publisher's POV, they were (by luck) delivered something that would sell like hotcakes; they recognized it and took advantage of it. They didn't shell out $750k as a gamble; they thought it was a sure thing.

 

[Steerpike]

I think he means luck in the sense that Meyer lucked into something that would sell really well. From the publisher's POV, they were (by luck) delivered something that would sell like hotcakes; they recognized it and took advantage of it. They didn't shell out $750k as a gamble; they thought it was a sure thing.

Ah. OK, I see the distinction.

I'm not sure I agree, though. I have a hard time, as a writer, knowing what it takes to put a complete work together, to think of another writer as having 'lucked' into a salable work. I'm sure Meyer worked her butt off on that series. Was it fortuitous that she fell into the whole teen paranormal romance thing? Maybe. Or maybe the teen paranormal romance genre wouldn't have taken off the way it did without the impetus that Twilight gave it. Like with Harry Potter, there were similar books about when Meyer wrote Twilight, but both Potter and Twilight came into a genre where similar books existed and were selling OK (mid-list stuff I guess), and they just blew the doors off. There has to be a reason for this beyond luck, or that the readers are morons (the two justifications I hear the most).

Personally, I'd like to have had a mental link with the person who gave the greenlight to Twilight, just to know what she saw in it; where her prescience came from. If I had been that person and Twilight came across my desk, I might well have taken it under consideration given the target audience, but I'm sure I would never have offered that kind of money for it. In short, if I had been that person I'd have lost the book to a competing publishing house. The thing that intrigues me most about Twilight doesn't have to do with Meyer, but with the foresight and knowledge of the market that the person who bought it must have had.

 

[DreamingInTheDark]

*in comes a fangirl* Hey all. Number 1 Twilight fan here *<<< points to moi* Yes, that is correct. I love Twilight xD
Okay let's get down the business.
Twilight as a series has its flaws? YES.
Is Twilight going to appeal to everyone? NO.
Was Stephanie Meyer lucky? YES.
(Do I give a crap if anyone bitches about the series? NO. But... I do care when people start judging it before they've even read it. I'm not saying any of you have, but there are so many folk out there that trash a book and then you find out they've never read it. The same goes with movies/music/tv shows.)

Just because Stephanie Meyer is worth millions now, doesn't mean to say she hasn't worked hard to get the books that successful. Sure, she got lucky, but so have a lot of authors.
Also, it's not necessarily luck that is needed. It's good writing, good publicity, and a good market. She aimed at teenagers/young adults and hit home. Of course a lot of older adults and the like, like the series. There's no limitations. It's a vampire romance. Why build it up to be something it's not?

I am definitely not making sense here, so I'll end saying... Yeah, I love it. It's cheesy (in parts), it's romantic, it's thrilling, and it has THE best cast in the movies. RAWR

 

[KellyB]

I would say, I'm more of a casual fan of Twilight. I've enjoyed the movies, and read all the books. But really, it was reading the Twilight books that really rekindled by desire to be an author. I think it was Stephenie herself that inspired me. Here is a woman in Arizona, a wife and mother, close to my own age, who wrote a successful series of books. So, I thought, why not me? My only problem is coming up with what I think is a good enough idea for a novel. I've had several false starts, but I keep trying!

~Kelly~

 

[DreamingInTheDark]

I always get what I call "good ideas" and then I start them. Half way through I either get bored, or I lose focus. It sucks, but I keep rolling on. One day I'll finish something.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Ah. OK, I see the distinction.

I'm not sure I agree, though. I have a hard time, as a writer, knowing what it takes to put a complete work together, to think of another writer as having 'lucked' into a salable work. I'm sure Meyer worked her butt off on that series. Was it fortuitous that she fell into the whole teen paranormal romance thing? Maybe. Or maybe the teen paranormal romance genre wouldn't have taken off the way it did without the impetus that Twilight gave it. Like with Harry Potter, there were similar books about when Meyer wrote Twilight, but both Potter and Twilight came into a genre where similar books existed and were selling OK (mid-list stuff I guess), and they just blew the doors off. There has to be a reason for this beyond luck, or that the readers are morons (the two justifications I hear the most).

I'm sure she did work her butt off; I have no idea whether she thought that she'd produced something that would resonate hugely, or just sent it out hoping for the best, and was astonished when they offered her so much money. Considering how awful the prose is, it seems unlikely that she had a super-keen sense of what would capture the hearts of teenage girls, and likely stumbled into it by accident.

It'll even be hard to tell going forward: We could look at how her future writing fares, but because she now has a huge built-in audience, it'll be hard to separate "book X sold well because she knows how to capture the hearts of teenage girls" and "book X sold well because she has a huge legion of fans who will buy anything she writes."

 

[Steerpike]

I'm sure she did work her butt off; I have no idea whether she thought that she'd produced something that would resonate hugely, or just sent it out hoping for the best, and was astonished when they offered her so much money. Considering how awful the prose is, it seems unlikely that she had a super-keen sense of what would capture the hearts of teenage girls, and likely stumbled into it by accident.

It'll even be hard to tell going forward: We could look at how her future writing fares, but because she now has a huge built-in audience, it'll be hard to separate "book X sold well because she knows how to capture the hearts of teenage girls" and "book X sold well because she has a huge legion of fans who will buy anything she writes."

I don't think the prose is awful by any stretch of the imagination. I think it is mediocre. A lot of people here seem to have liked Eragon, and frankly Paolini makes Meyer look like James Joyce. I suspect Meyer was astonished at the advance she received. I imagine anyone would be.

I didn't care much for Twilight. I assume the prose gets better later in the series because her book The Host is better written and was actually fairly good, in my opinion. It did not become the phenomenon Twilight did, and I don't expect it ever will. Most Twilight fans I know have never read it. I think anything she releases that ties in to the Twilight universe will do well because of that association. Anything that is not Twilight-related will not do nearly as well unless lightning strikes twice and she comes across another bona fide phenomenon.