Writing, Anxiety and Perfectionism

[Devouring Wolf]

Obviously, I don't know you and I'd hate to be presumptuous, but I wonder if some of what you're feeling comes from a lack of confidence. I only say this because I never felt good at anything until I started writing, and then like you people would tell me I was good at it and I felt like it was my only ticket to being worth something because I didn't have any other talents. That's why when I wrote the first draft of my novel (like you I was very young at the time but I restarted before I managed to finish it because it was 80,000 words of utter nonsense) it was perhaps the one thing in life I didn't feel any pressure until one day my mother said maybe I should think about getting published since that time I felt a horrible anxiety about not being able to live up to her expectation. I was afraid if I couldn't be good at writing, I couldn't be good at anything.

I won't go into to much detail about how I overcame this, because it actually has nothing to do with writing and because the story's long enough to be a novel in and of itself. All I'll say is, what do you think is going to happen when your novel is perfect? Because if you're desire for it be perfect comes from anything other than your love for the story, if/when you finally get there you will feel unfulfilled. I myself am still working on the same story, and have been something like four years on and off (it certainly doesn't feel like its been that long). I may never finish, but I've made my peace with that. I'd rather I loved it completely even if not a single other person in the world does.

 

[Caged Maiden]

I read through this thread again, because it bears a striking resemblance (in emotional toll) to my Commiserate with Me thread.

One thing I'm finding really interesting, and I'm not sure I mentioned it before, but I don't have a golden idea.

You mentioned that you would put your book aside for a few months, and then character voices would haunt you. Do you really mean that? How does the story haunt you? What does it feel like, and how do you resist the temptation to answer the call, or do you answer it?

I'm sorry if that's too personal to talk about, I'm just genuinely intrigued, because for me, that has just never happened. I don't have stories that ask me to be told, or characters who are any more a part of me or my thought process than what I write on a page. If I'm not writing it or reading it, I don't think about it (except on rare occasion, when I'm doing a menial task like weeding the garden, and a solution to a plot problem or a scene lacking in emotional impact somehow becomes clear in my mind). But I just consider that is my subconscious mind always looking for solutions to problems I put on the to-do list for later.

Yeah, I joined up here in 2011, and I had a lot of novels finished already, and while I have my favorites, none of them is something I couldn't reject and stuff in a drawer forever.

I know you're looking for help, but would it derail your thread to explore what leads some writers to have a golden idea that they can't shake, and others to have almost no emotional connection to their books? I'm certainly in that second category, so I could speak on that subject, but I'm really struggling to understand what leads to the first. And my question isn't specifically aimed at any particular person. I don't want to put anyone on the spot, or anything.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

Obviously, I don't know you and I'd hate to be presumptuous, but I wonder if some of what you're feeling comes from a lack of confidence. I only say this because I never felt good at anything until I started writing, and then like you people would tell me I was good at it and I felt like it was my only ticket to being worth something because I didn't have any other talents. That's why when I wrote the first draft of my novel (like you I was very young at the time but I restarted before I managed to finish it because it was 80,000 words of utter nonsense) it was perhaps the one thing in life I didn't feel any pressure until one day my mother said maybe I should think about getting published since that time I felt a horrible anxiety about not being able to live up to her expectation. I was afraid if I couldn't be good at writing, I couldn't be good at anything.

I won't go into to much detail about how I overcame this, because it actually has nothing to do with writing and because the story's long enough to be a novel in and of itself. All I'll say is, what do you think is going to happen when your novel is perfect? Because if you're desire for it be perfect comes from anything other than your love for the story, if/when you finally get there you will feel unfulfilled. I myself am still working on the same story, and have been something like four years on and off (it certainly doesn't feel like its been that long). I may never finish, but I've made my peace with that. I'd rather I loved it completely even if not a single other person in the world does.

Your experience sounds very familiar to me. I've felt very often that if I can't write and sell books, I'll be forced into a job I hate to survive. I've also occasionally thought that writing is the only thing I'm good at--not true really, but it can seem convincing sometimes.
And whenever people compliment my writing it puts pressure on me. I feel pressure and fear from a vast number of sources--I like writing things I will never show anyone because I can enjoy it without worrying about the things I usually worry about!
I think I have this vision in my head of what I want the story to be, which is unattainable--especially since my idea of an "ideal" story changes as I read more and live more. Also, there are many books I've really loved until they really messed up and I couldn't love them anymore...I'm worried about ending up like them.
So, in short--my worries come from everywhere. But what I really want is to write a story that brings joy to me, and that brings joy to readers. Whenever I read a great book and i can never see the world the same way afterward--a book that gets inside me and never really leaves--I think, I want to do this for someone! I have to do this for someone!
I know I shouldn't be motivated by the idea of being read--but I DO want people to read and love my stories.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Nothing is wrong with being motivated by wanting to be read. The only bad motivation for writing is one that somehow trips a person up. So, too much emphasis on being loved can be bad. Writing for yourself is great, but heck, I've got the stories in my head, I don't need to read them. I want other people to read them and enjoy them. Otherwise, the point of all the hours typing is blunted, LOL.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

I read through this thread again, because it bears a striking resemblance (in emotional toll) to my Commiserate with Me thread.

One thing I'm finding really interesting, and I'm not sure I mentioned it before, but I don't have a golden idea.

You mentioned that you would put your book aside for a few months, and then character voices would haunt you. Do you really mean that? How does the story haunt you? What does it feel like, and how do you resist the temptation to answer the call, or do you answer it?

I'm sorry if that's too personal to talk about, I'm just genuinely intrigued, because for me, that has just never happened. I don't have stories that ask me to be told, or characters who are any more a part of me or my thought process than what I write on a page. If I'm not writing it or reading it, I don't think about it (except on rare occasion, when I'm doing a menial task like weeding the garden, and a solution to a plot problem or a scene lacking in emotional impact somehow becomes clear in my mind). But I just consider that is my subconscious mind always looking for solutions to problems I put on the to-do list for later.

Yeah, I joined up here in 2011, and I had a lot of novels finished already, and while I have my favorites, none of them is something I couldn't reject and stuff in a drawer forever.

I know you're looking for help, but would it derail your thread to explore what leads some writers to have a golden idea that they can't shake, and others to have almost no emotional connection to their books? I'm certainly in that second category, so I could speak on that subject, but I'm really struggling to understand what leads to the first. And my question isn't specifically aimed at any particular person. I don't want to put anyone on the spot, or anything.

It's all right; I don't mind discussing!
First of all...You experience writing in a very different way than I do it seems. Of course, everyone's experience is different.

You say that your characters aren't a part of you or your thought process except when you're writing them. I think that's how we're different. My characters live in my mind and are a part of my consciousness even when I'm not writing. I don't try to make them a certain way, I just let an idea develop in my mind and let it take on a life of its own. I hardly ever purposefully set down to invent characters. (and when I do, it doesn't work. I can write down traits and sketch out appearances, but if nothing clicks, it's not a living character.) They start to come on their own--first just a foggy image, then clearer as I get a better idea of who they are and what they are like. It seems like your ideas live on the paper, in the story itself, but mine live in my mind, and the story is somewhat an extension of that. I've been working with my main characters for a long time, so usually I let my subconscious take over when I'm writing them and let them have their way, because they know best about what they are like. Sometimes, when I'm having problems, I'll write out a scene in which I imagine my character sitting on my bed and me in my desk chair, and we talk it out. It sounds hokey, but it works. I think of my characters as forces I have to work and negotiate and cooperate with, instead of chess pieces I move around my plotline with character trait cards next to them where I write down everything that makes them different from the others.

Also, writing isn't something I'm either doing or not doing. It's more a part of the nature of my mind than anything else. I'm always alert, picking up ideas from the world around me. If I take a break for too long, they start to come back to me. Ideas show up, often out of nowhere. My ideas start to churn in my subconscious. And usually when this happens I feel the urge to write again. For me, writing, and other artistic endeavors (but mostly writing) release some kind of pressure. Its like thoughts and ideas and experiences build up in my mind that I have to get out somehow. I get irritable when I don't write--I think it's from all my ideas getting overcrowded up there. Writing makes me feel much more balanced.

I don't know if I'm exactly emotionally attached to any story other than my current work in progress, but that's probably since the others are mostly gestating ideas. They don't live in my head like this one, their characters don't stay with me like this one. But, if I were fully invested in another story like this, it would be the same. Thing is, I can't really fully devote myself to more than one story at once. It just takes up so much space in my mind.

 

[FifthView]

The "Golden Idea" is an odd thing.

What I've noticed for myself is that idea and story are really two separate things.

The Golden Idea (or multiple golden ideas, in my case) is always amorphous, broad, and, when I get down to it, very paltry. I mean that when I examine my Idea, I discover that it's really only about one thing. A feeling. A state of existence for a character and/or world. No matter how "developed" the idea becomes with maps, character bios, magic system, world building, all of these things are really in service to that amorphous shape. And it's a static shape.

A story is something else. A story requires change, movement. The characters change, their circumstances change, the world changes. Things break; stasis is impossible for a story.

The problem comes when that Golden Idea's supporting features are considered through the lens of story. If you've spent years building up all those supporting features like world, characters, and so forth, it's very hard to consider those things being other than what they are. They are already complete. But a story requires lack of completion, for a start, and it requires that things become broken, altered, changed from what they were.

On a related note...We see the Golden Ideas that others have apparently had, but we only see them in a state of completion. For me, one example would be Herbert's Dune. When I have a Golden Idea of my own, I want something like that. But the problem is that we are only seeing the completed project, the published novel when we see others' works. Though I do it too, we are being unfair with ourselves when we look at our just-begun or yet-to-be-begun projects and weigh them against those great books we've always enjoyed. I would wager good money on the fact that their initial ideas and plans for their novels were somewhat different than the novels they eventually published.

 

[Chessie]

An emotional connection to my books...to my characters...NAH.

I get ideas all the time but never in a million lifetimes will I be able to write them all. There's one fantasy world that I've developed and have written several stories out of. Currently, I have a series planned for that world and I'm on book one. After the series is wrapped up I have other ideas to go to and whichever I choose will depend on where I'm at in my craft.

The only time I've ever felt attached to a story world or characters per say things went awfully wrong. For me, I enjoy my time in the story world with particular characters but I also love moving on to other projects. I'm a writer that wants to write as many books as possible before I die. Having a golden idea isn't a concept I'm familiar with. But everyone is different and there is no right or wrong way to do any of this. If being attached to a project drives your passion for it deeper and helps you write more, then that's awesome! If not, then hey that's cool, too.

We all face challenges while writing our stories. Those challenges are unique to the writer, which is why we must confront our difficulties and do the best we can to learn from them, apply the learned lessons to our next project and keep writing.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

As a side note, while I have anxiety over quality and whether people will appreciate my work, whether I can get people emotionally invested in my stories, I have more anxiety when I can't write.

As for characters and story, I am closer to Dragon, I'm constantly "writing" in my mind. Drives the wife crazy. But in a sense, my character is a world. If I live long enough, I will take the world to its destruction after several trilogies and stand alone books over time... where each is independent of each other, but in the background leading to an ultimate conclusion.

Golden idea, sort of. But I've plenty of stand alone novel ideas in different genres thumping around in my head. They're all my babies, LOL.

 

[Phantasy]

Just keep writing.

 

[Devouring Wolf]

Your experience sounds very familiar to me. I've felt very often that if I can't write and sell books, I'll be forced into a job I hate to survive. I've also occasionally thought that writing is the only thing I'm good at--not true really, but it can seem convincing sometimes.
And whenever people compliment my writing it puts pressure on me. I feel pressure and fear from a vast number of sources--I like writing things I will never show anyone because I can enjoy it without worrying about the things I usually worry about!
I think I have this vision in my head of what I want the story to be, which is unattainable--especially since my idea of an "ideal" story changes as I read more and live more. Also, there are many books I've really loved until they really messed up and I couldn't love them anymore...I'm worried about ending up like them.
So, in short--my worries come from everywhere. But what I really want is to write a story that brings joy to me, and that brings joy to readers. Whenever I read a great book and i can never see the world the same way afterward--a book that gets inside me and never really leaves--I think, I want to do this for someone! I have to do this for someone!
I know I shouldn't be motivated by the idea of being read--but I DO want people to read and love my stories.

I can completely understand all of this. I used to want to be a writer professionally (in fact i still do but I don't think it will happen) and I couldn't think of anything else I wanted to do so I used to have a lot of anxiety about what I would do with my life if I couldn't finish my book and get it published. Eventually did start seriously looking for other options, and I'm now going to try to become an editor, which while perhaps not my dream job is something I think I could be content doing for the rest of my life. Nothing will ever be as good as making being a full-time author, but I think if you can find a more stable career path to fall back on, it would reduce some of your anxiety.

I also want people to be changed by reading my story, it means so much to me that I would be positively devastated if somehow the meaning behind it was missed, but I think you have to just realize that if there is meaning in something (and in my opinion there is always meaning in things made from passion even if the creator isn't sure what that meaning is) then at least one person in the world is bound to find it, even if most people don't. I know that might sound silly, but that's how I try to think about it. Not everyone is going to like your story, that's just life, but if you put real time and effort into it, someone will see that and really appreciate it (even if sometimes the only person who does is your mother). When it comes to people liking your book it should really be about quality over quantity. I would rather have just one person truly appreciate my work that a million people simply liking it (though of course I'd be grateful either way).

So yeah, I used to feel so much pressure about everything in my life, especially writing. I wish I had some actual good advice for how to overcome it, but I would not recommend what I did. I basically embraced my self-hatred and came to the conclusion, I will never be good at anything so now I can write without worrying about being any good because I know I'm not. It got rid of my anxiety, but it also made my life pretty miserable so, yeah definitely don't do that. I guess the takeaway here is not to let your perfectionism and self-doubt destroy you.

 

[Devouring Wolf]

I read through this thread again, because it bears a striking resemblance (in emotional toll) to my Commiserate with Me thread.

One thing I'm finding really interesting, and I'm not sure I mentioned it before, but I don't have a golden idea.

You mentioned that you would put your book aside for a few months, and then character voices would haunt you. Do you really mean that? How does the story haunt you? What does it feel like, and how do you resist the temptation to answer the call, or do you answer it?

I'm sorry if that's too personal to talk about, I'm just genuinely intrigued, because for me, that has just never happened. I don't have stories that ask me to be told, or characters who are any more a part of me or my thought process than what I write on a page. If I'm not writing it or reading it, I don't think about it (except on rare occasion, when I'm doing a menial task like weeding the garden, and a solution to a plot problem or a scene lacking in emotional impact somehow becomes clear in my mind). But I just consider that is my subconscious mind always looking for solutions to problems I put on the to-do list for later.

Yeah, I joined up here in 2011, and I had a lot of novels finished already, and while I have my favorites, none of them is something I couldn't reject and stuff in a drawer forever.

I know you're looking for help, but would it derail your thread to explore what leads some writers to have a golden idea that they can't shake, and others to have almost no emotional connection to their books? I'm certainly in that second category, so I could speak on that subject, but I'm really struggling to understand what leads to the first. And my question isn't specifically aimed at any particular person. I don't want to put anyone on the spot, or anything.

So this question was really aimed at me, but it seems I'm in that replying to random things kind of mood so I'll answer. My stories are very personal things to me and all my characters represent a part of me (usually my most negative aspects). I've shelved my "golden idea" several times to write other things, but I just couldn't. Every time I tried, the same characters and themes would find themselves in whatever I was writing. I just can't let it go.

I think its sort of like how I think most writers find there are recurring themes or motifs in their stories, that keep showing up because they just fascinate the writer. A golden idea, might be just a very specific version of that. A story you create that just fascinates you for whatever reason.

I don't know, I really can't imagine not being deeply connected to my stories, especially since most of them are based around issues from my own life.

 

[skip.knox]

> I don't know, I really can't imagine not being deeply connected to my stories, especially since most of them are based around issues from my own life.

Isn't art weird? I like my stories and I like my characters, but they are not at all based around issues from my own life, not even when I was quite young. I just have a whole truckload of ideas and characters, and want to get them into stories. For those who write from personal passion I feel a kind of awe, like they can sing in another language.

 

[Chessie]

I can completely understand all of this. I used to want to be a writer professionally (in fact i still do but I don't think it will happen) and I couldn't think of anything else I wanted to do so I used to have a lot of anxiety about what I would do with my life if I couldn't finish my book and get it published. Eventually did start seriously looking for other options, and I'm now going to try to become an editor, which while perhaps not my dream job is something I think I could be content doing for the rest of my life. Nothing will ever be as good as making being a full-time author, but I think if you can find a more stable career path to fall back on, it would reduce some of your anxiety.

This might not be the right thread for the response I'm about to give. However, since I'm responding to your response to the OP, it seems fair game. So...your post really stood out to me here. Why sell yourself short? And in addition, why recommend to the OP that he (or she) also sell himself short?

Times have changed. Traditional publishing isn't the only game in town anymore. Becoming a full time author is hard whether you do it Indie or Trad. Well, becoming good at any career takes time, patience, and a good work ethic. Whether you become a lawyer, doctor, teacher, whatever you still need to educate yourself, still need to put in your dues. Being a full time anything takes hard work.

When you say, "I want to be a full time writer but don't think it will happen", it just sounds like you're not believing it will happen. You're not believing in yourself. Having an office job means you go to the office everyday. Well, being a full time writer means you write everyday. I know full time authors that only write 2k a day, or some as little as 1k a day. To someone only writing as a hobby that must seem like a lot but it really isn't.

Going traditional means you're at the mercy of agents and editors. Going Indie means you're at the mercy of your audience. Either way, you still have to do the work of figuring out what market you want to write to, what kind of stories you want to write, write those stories, have them edited, write blurbs, write queries, etc. Yes, it's hard. Yes, sometimes it seems impossible. But there are real live people out there making a living from their writing and most of them are independently published.

Readers only care if your work is professional, and it should be if you're going it alone (a lesson I've learned the hard way). But it's very, very possible to be a full time writer in this day and age. You do have to work hard. You do have to have patience. You do have to promote yourself. But it's worth it if that's your dream. Better than working at some job you dislike when you could be making a living telling stories.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

I thought I had figured it out, and I made it to 7,000 words, but now I'm stuck again and trying not to panic, because it always feels like it will last forever. I have no idea if I should take a break from it, or if I should keep going. This is a horrible, caged feeling. My characters still are lifeless and have no motivation, and I can't give them any. Also, what I have written is by far the worst I have done this year, even surpassing that truly bizarre thing about the expired Greek yogurt. At least, it seems that way. My plot is far too complicated and all my solutions to my problems complicate it still further. Basically, I started writing without a plan because I thought it could help me beat my anxiety, and now I'm stuck 4 chapters in due to not having a plan. I just want out of this.

 

[Devouring Wolf]

This might not be the right thread for the response I'm about to give. However, since I'm responding to your response to the OP, it seems fair game. So...your post really stood out to me here. Why sell yourself short? And in addition, why recommend to the OP that he (or she) also sell himself short?

I think you missed the point of what I was saying. The OP stated that they felt anxious that if they couldn't become a professional author, they would have to take a job they hate, so I was trying to illustrate that while there may never be any day job that he or she enjoys as much as writing, but there might be something out there that they could be okay with doing because having a solid backup plan goes a long way to relieving that kind of anxiety. I wasn't telling them their dream of being a writer was unrealistic or anything like that. Granted I may have made a mistake using myself as an example, since I'm far from inspiring.

 

[Devouring Wolf]

I thought I had figured it out, and I made it to 7,000 words, but now I'm stuck again and trying not to panic, because it always feels like it will last forever. I have no idea if I should take a break from it, or if I should keep going. This is a horrible, caged feeling. My characters still are lifeless and have no motivation, and I can't give them any. Also, what I have written is by far the worst I have done this year, even surpassing that truly bizarre thing about the expired Greek yogurt. At least, it seems that way. My plot is far too complicated and all my solutions to my problems complicate it still further. Basically, I started writing without a plan because I thought it could help me beat my anxiety, and now I'm stuck 4 chapters in due to not having a plan. I just want out of this.

I think maybe you should just take a moment to breath. No matter how good a writer you are, sometimes your writing will be terrible and that's okay. You can always fix it later. More often, I find in a situation like that, my writings fine and I'm just in the wrong frame of mind. When that happens the best thing (at least for me) is to take a deep breath, and realize its okay to start over, sometimes you have to, but its also not a decision to be taken lightly. Wait a few days, if it still seems salvageable then restart. More often than not you'll find there's a way to fix it.

When I'm horribly stuck its usually because of decisions I made earlier in the story so maybe go back and try to see where it went wrong. You might have to delete a bit or change something you really love, but that's better than continually starting over.

Or you could just wait for someone better at giving advice to come along and help.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

I think maybe you should just take a moment to breath. No matter how good a writer you are, sometimes your writing will be terrible and that's okay. You can always fix it later. More often, I find in a situation like that, my writings fine and I'm just in the wrong frame of mind. When that happens the best thing (at least for me) is to take a deep breath, and realize its okay to start over, sometimes you have to, but its also not a decision to be taken lightly. Wait a few days, if it still seems salvageable then restart. More often than not you'll find there's a way to fix it.

When I'm horribly stuck its usually because of decisions I made earlier in the story so maybe go back and try to see where it went wrong. You might have to delete a bit or change something you really love, but that's better than continually starting over.

Or you could just wait for someone better at giving advice to come along and help.

Thanks for replying. I'm quitting, at least temporarily, to work on a few other projects. I'm stuck on those too, but not as stuck as on this one. I don't know how long i should spend away from it. one minute i think i should take a year off, and the next i think i should keep going even though it's bad.

i have a terribly complicated plot. I'm struggling horribly with character motivations. In the past i've put my characters in such horrible situations that their motivation to survive and get out of those horrible situations drives the story. However, i don't have any motivations that seem genuine right now. I've created a terribly bad situation for myself, having so many things i have to explain and accomplish, but the characters have neither the reason nor the ability to actually do anything to get the story started. also, i'm frustrated by the lack of tension and just the lack of anything important happening.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

but, when i try to work through these problems, i lose patience with myself because i feel like i'm not getting anywhere and the problems will never end. i'm not sure how much is genuinely in need of a solution and how much is manufactured by my anxiety, either.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

i've joined a couple challenges in the challenges forum, so that might help. especially top scribes V, because i am writing essentially a super hero story.

 

[Penpilot]

One of the mistakes I use to run into quite often was I made my plots too complicated and convoluted. The moment I stopped doing that and kept things simple that things started to roll for me. The way I look at it is you build the complex on top of a simple foundation. I focused more on complexity of emotion instead of plot and I found my stories became better for it. And as it turns out when I focused on keeping things simple the stories became more layered.