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Ireth

Ireth

Mythic Scribe
Just wondering whether I should stay in the Side Treks thread for a bit longer, or go back to the main one. I don't think Cadell and Liadan will come across much before they get back to Arendal, though I may be wrong. Where exactly is everyone else? And has anyone seen Keit lately, in-game or out?
 
Legendary Sidekick

Legendary Sidekick

Staff
Moderator
In case Gisla isn't feeling chatty, I had Baldy keep prattling on while finishing the preparations. She will be unarmed and armorless since the idea is to jump overboard where the water is deep.

I wonder how Grim and Gisla will react when they see Baldhart dressed like a level 1 video game character.

Diablo III barbarian:
Fem_barbarian.jpg


Baldhart: At least she^ has shoes.
 
Ireth

Ireth

Mythic Scribe
Had a question pop into my head just now. Steerpike, what's your stance on characters defying your posts and rolls when it would be in-character to do so? Say for instance that there's a melee going on. An orc archer aims an arrow at Liadan, but she doesn't see, since the orc is behind her. Cadell sees the orc but is too far away to attack it, so he makes a DEX check to jump between Liadan and the orc, and winds up taking the arrow for her. My post would logically come after the GM post containing the orc's attack and damage rolls, since Cadell isn't foresighted (and gameplay just doesn't work that way). Is that a thing we're allowed to do?
 
Legendary Sidekick

Legendary Sidekick

Staff
Moderator
Nihal said:
It could be worse. It could be a chainkini.
Click to expand...
In that concept drawing, chains are holding that 'outfit' together. Does that count as a chainkini?

@Ireth, I'd expect that Cadell would need to position himself before the orc fires. Otherwise it sounds like, oh… that actually hit! Well, maybe if I move this guy, he blocks it (better AC) or takes the hit but can be healed. Yeah, I like that better than her getting hit.

EDIT- I think what you're describing could work as a readied action. So if Cadell is doing nothing (or maybe even if in defense stance), you could post a readied action: if Cadell sees the crossbow moving toward Liadan's back, he dives through the air shouting "nooooooo!" [DEX check]"



Example of a readied action I used:

Baldhart killed Tommen when I was on vacation, and what you saw was my post of Baldhart putting her sword to Tommen's throat, followed by a GM post saying she slashed his throat. What you didn't see was the PM I sent Steerpike which included a hit roll and a damage roll, and the conditions that would decide whether those rolls would be used.

It wasn't actually an instant-death throat-slitting (as far as I know), but the hit was 12 damage, which I figured/hoped would drop him. But the action was only to happen either if Calexa made no attempt to stop the attacks, or if Baldhart could see she was under attack. She didn't waste a turn when she grabbed Tommen, though it may have appeared that way to players who didn't know about her readied action.

(She risked wasting a turn, since her STR check had to be high enough to grab Tommen and her hit roll still had to hit. I suppose a lower hit roll works if you're grabbing someone, but two d20 rolls means you're more likely to screw up. On the other hand, Baldhart's less likely to fail with a STR check than she is to miss, so maybe STR check followed by hit roll doesn't hurt Baldhart's odds.)
 
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Nihal

Nihal

Valar Lord
@LS Only a little, not enough. It wouldn't be nearly as uncomfortable as a true chainkini.


***

Before Cadell could attempt an preemptive action he should be able to see what is about to happen. If he's with his back turned to the archer he wouldn't see the shot coming; if he's fully engaged with another enemy he wouldn't have the chance to see the shot coming unless he was already actively monitoring the archer from time to time* or the archer shouted "HEY, I'M GOING TO SHOOT HER NOW!", what would justify a head turn. Otherwise your knowledge of what is going on is bleeding to the character.

Remember, it's a battle. Blows, shouts, look away and you might get yourself in trouble. Smaller side actions will pass unnoticed, only bigger things like a blast in the field delivered by a full-of-arms half-serpent woman are sure to be seen (or heard) by everyone, even who isn't engaged in direct combat with her.


*I can't speak for SP, but in this case I would allow a WIS check. Normally the character would be too busy with the current battle to pay attention at anything (discreet) else, but given the previously established pattern he could have been lucky and turned his head at the right moment, catching a glimpse of the archer.
 
Legendary Sidekick

Legendary Sidekick

Staff
Moderator
I would think all characters are aware of the enemies that are shown on the map and visible to the character. When you're in a melee with multiple attackers, you tend to look around a lot. (In karate class, when the teacher had me and three other guys fight an old man, 4-on-1, he kicked our asses! In a LARP, I was playing a skeleton NPC while the rest of the staff was sleeping. I successfully fended off 5 players, and may have ended up killing them if not for the shield fighter who showed up. I think my LARPing experience has a lot to do with my not playing characters that use shields. I hate shields even more than I hate dual wielding.) Of course, barbarians have combat sense, so at the very least a barbarian should be played that way.

That said, the only way I could see Cadell diving in front of Liadan is if he's standing near her with nothing better to do. I mean that seriously, as in archers are advancing but we lack the means of a shield wall, so maybe he remains by her side hoping to draw fire from her. He sees an enemy at her back, then remains focused on that enemy.

His "readied action" is to position himself between that enemy and Liadan if that enemy's crossbow is aimed at her. If that doesn't happen, he continues to just stand there.

What he can't do (if my understanding is correct) is attack someone and/or use his full movement AND ready an action, because that would be two actions in one turn.

* * *

I would think "defying" another character's action (GM or player) would need to be justified as "my character had both the will and ability to respond to this action in time."

The only example I can think of that actually happened is when Baldhart jumped ship when Algernon turned the canoe around. In that case, I PM'd Steerpike saying that Baldhart's posted action was to gradually move forward as the canoe travels straight toward shore. When Agernon turned around unexpectedly, her gradual action was rendered useless. Baldhart would have time and the sense to see that the boat's turning, and could react by jumping overboard. (Honestly, with her low DEX, she probably would have needed a DEX check to not fall overboard during the sudden U-turn had she not jumped ship.)
 
Nihal

Nihal

Valar Lord
@LS I'm not saying the characters aren't aware of the enemy, just that they're not omniscient. You can keep track of someone running with your peripheral vision but you can't keep track of how every small combat in a battle is unfolding, specially if you already have your attention on something else. If you were fighting someone while dedicating your attention to scan the whole battlefield to find random enemies potentially targeting someone else what do you think it would happen? It gets worst when it happens only this random enemy fired, but not before. =P

I'm honestly not a fan of omniscient characters.

That's also a part of the explanation of why you can't take an action and also take another action to prevent the attack. You were busy. Simply as that.

Oh, and in your case your action was "cancelled" by another one's action. If you think the action was a slot, it just became free when the course of the events took a sudden turn.
 
Legendary Sidekick

Legendary Sidekick

Staff
Moderator
Nihal said:
@LS I'm not saying the characters aren't aware of the enemy, just that they're not omniscient. You can keep track of someone running with your peripheral vision but you can't keep track of how every small combat in a battle is unfolding, specially if you already have your attention on something else. If you were fighting someone while dedicating your attention to scan the whole battlefield to find random enemies potentially targeting someone else what do you think it would happen? It gets worst when it happens only this random enemy fired, but not before. =P

I'm honestly not a fan of omniscient characters.

That's also a part of the explanation of why you can't take an action and also take another action to prevent the attack. You were busy. Simply as that.

Oh, and in your case your action was "cancelled" by another one's action. If you think the action was a slot, it just became free when the course of the events took a sudden turn.
Click to expand...
Actually, I'm agreeing with your point. That is, Cadell would need to focus on a specific enemy (or direction) to ready an action.

Yeah, you can't ready an action that says, "If Liadan gets attacked at all, I move between her and the attacker."

But I think you can do this: "I'm watching Liadan's back. If I see those guys in the west corridor aim crossbows her way, I'm moving between her and them before they can fire." This is possible if Cadell's right next to Liadan, and not currently engaged in battle. This also would imply Cadell's facing west, so the rogue hiding behind the barrel on the east side of the room can back-stab him.

PS- Nihal, I like the 'action slot' analogy.
 
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SeverinR

SeverinR

Valar Lord
[Aliron] Why is there a thief hiding from Cadell and why is he looking to surgically alter Cadells organs and spine from the rear?

I think you can call an action, but if it doesn't come true, I believe there should be a penalty, since you commited to an action (that didn't happen) for a bonus. The specific action would have to be evaluated to completely negate an action.

"I'm going to wait for..." As opposed to "If they do this, I will do this."
The first says you're waiting for the action, it didn't happen so you're still waiting. The second covers the action but could allow for a different action if the prepared action never happens.

Such as, I have an aimed shot at the door, but someone comes in the window. I lose the bonus and might even get a penalty for a quick shot if the attacker lept through the window towards me (maybe even suprises).

This discussion got my hopes up. I saw LS post of all the enemy on the map. I was like they started fighting without me! So I go to post and we're still preping.

Az on wednesday.
 
Steerpike

Steerpike

Staff
Moderator
A few things regarding the combat question:

1) To react preemptively to something an enemy is about to do, you have to be aware of the fact that they are about to do it. I think that is something everyone would agree on. I'd look at a case-by-case basis to determine whether a character is aware. Some enemies on a map might be on the other side of a building from a PC, in which case the PC wouldn't be aware of what they are doing, even though the player might know.

2) You can ready an action, as mentioned above. You state the readied action on your turn and it pertains to anything that happens afterward, or until you decide your action is no longer readied. If you are readying an action that says "I jump in front of Liadan if the orc fires," then you can make the jump just as the orc is about to fire, assuming you are aware the orc is about to fire and you are otherwise able to jump to that location (i.e. you're not too far away or something).

3) Some d20 games have delayed actions (the core d20 rules allow it, and I generally use it if people want to). That means when your turn comes up, you don't do anything yet, delaying as you see how events are unfolding on the battlefield. It's a bit tough to do in this online format, because we're not using individual initiative, we are just saying it is either the players turn or the monster's turn. In a non-online game, every player and monster would have an initiative, and you can delay an action to move on a different (lower) initiative count. Delayed actions can't interrupt other player's or monster's actions, but they could allow you to do something like delay your turn to see if an orc is killed that round, and then take your action at the end of the round, doing one of two things depending on whether the orc died or not.

Readied action is more like what you're talking about here. My thought is this - if you're stated that you're readying your action and you're watching for an event, no problem. If you haven't stated that you're readying an action, but your character sees an event unfold and hasn't already acted yet, it might work as a creative use of the SIEGE check system (we'd have to see how it works on a case-by-case basis). If you're already taken a standard action for that round, then there is nothing you can do. Even though the reality of game mechanics require us to go in order, the idea is supposed to be that all of the character actions for a round take place in the same six-second or so period. So if you've already acted, then even though it seems like the orc is firing afterward, what has really happened is that the orc fired in the same six second period that you already acted in.
 
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Ireth

Ireth

Mythic Scribe
Still wondering where to post... I'm not sure how far from the village Cadell ran into Ankari, so I really don't know how long it would take him and Liadan to get back to Arendal. Any insight, O benevolent GM?
 
Steerpike

Steerpike

Staff
Moderator
There is no interference on the way back to Arendal. It takes a number of minutes to get back to town, but since nothing happens on the way I just fast-forwarded to your arrival.
 
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