The Harronyne - Discussion

[Kevlar]

This thread is for all comments, suggestions and critiques on the Harronyne. If you feel you can add to, or fix issues with, the Harronyne, feel free to post here about them and if I like them I'll work them into the main thread. If I find your idea requiring work, we can also address that here. Please keep all critiques constructive. Also, know that nothing is yet set in stone, but don't suggest giant contradictions to 'official' material and don't attempt to undermine all the work yet put into the island.

 

[Kevlar]

Haven't had much chance to update for a while, but just updated religion section in main thread. Credits go to Eastep as a contributer. Eastep helped me flesh out some tradition a while ago and I forgot to post it any time I did get the chance.

 

[Devor]

Kevlar, which areas of the Harronyne would you most welcome ideas for? Here's a few thoughts, off the top of my head.

1) A city in the mountains and its role as a buffer zone.

2) If the north is pretty barren, they need to import a lot of their agriculture. So, that opens possibilities for smugglers and land routes and tunnels from the south, sort of an black market supply line from some of those people in the south who don't support the queen's armies.

3) Pirates? Taking advantage of a Civil War? They might have more motives and techniques than simply stealing ships and cargo. They could be dragging this war out exponentially by striking under the other side's flag. Some of them may, in fact, be willing to work as mercenaries and strike enemy targets under their own flag, while their employer nation tries to negotiate a truce. Is one side more willing to try and seek their services than the other?

Do any of these interest you?

Also, I was hoping to tie the Kingsmen with a marketplace of merchants in Kilvikasa, but I'm not sure exactly how yet. If their main products are ore and stone, though, they probably have a lot of artisans who could sell their wares. And being at war, they could use the connections and the money. Are you interested?

 

[Kevlar]

Kevlar, which areas of the Harronyne would you most welcome ideas for? Here's a few thoughts, off the top of my head.

1) A city in the mountains and its role as a buffer zone.

2) If the north is pretty barren, they need to import a lot of their agriculture. So, that opens possibilities for smugglers and land routes and tunnels from the south, sort of an black market supply line from some of those people in the south who don't support the queen's armies.

3) Pirates? Taking advantage of a Civil War? They might have more motives and techniques than simply stealing ships and cargo. They could be dragging this war out exponentially by striking under the other side's flag. Some of them may, in fact, be willing to work as mercenaries and strike enemy targets under their own flag, while their employer nation tries to negotiate a truce. Is one side more willing to try and seek their services than the other?

Do any of these interest you?

Also, I was hoping to tie the Kingsmen with a marketplace of merchants in Kilvikasa, but I'm not sure exactly how yet. If their main products are ore and stone, though, they probably have a lot of artisans who could sell their wares. And being at war, they could use the connections and the money. Are you interested?

1) The Mysanese live in the mountains, and wouldn't take kindly, and they're a nomadic folk that aren't particularily friendly. As mentioned before (somewhere) they are commonly employed as mercenaries and assassins. Not a good idea to make that type mad.

2) Oh, definitely. Many people oppose a woman ruler, and would rather have the insane king, but most wouldn't openly oppose a woman with an army. Smuggling would undoubtedly happen in this situation.

3) There's potential there. I'm sure pirates have been used as mercenaries in the past. The queen isn't likely to hire them, but the king would be quite likely to.

And it would be no large feat for pirates to use plunder from one side to convince the other side they are the former, but strategically speaking I don't see much point. The pirates want to take a ship, and most likely slaughter or enslave those on board, except those worthy of ransom. Those who can not spread word of who attacked them don't need the identity of their aggressors to be hidden.

And

Both sides would undoubtedly be seeking trade across the archipelago, and strong economic partnerships would be likely formed. The north does indeed export stone and ore, but probably not iron. You can not have enough iron during a war.


Sorry for the late reply by the way, I've been (and am) sick, and it didn't even occur to me to check the forum.

 

[Devor]

1) The Mysanese live in the mountains, and wouldn't take kindly, and they're a nomadic folk that aren't particularily friendly. As mentioned before (somewhere) they are commonly employed as mercenaries and assassins. Not a good idea to make that type mad.

2) Oh, definitely. Many people oppose a woman ruler, and would rather have the insane king, but most wouldn't openly oppose a woman with an army. Smuggling would undoubtedly happen in this situation.

3) There's potential there. I'm sure pirates have been used as mercenaries in the past. The queen isn't likely to hire them, but the king would be quite likely to.

And it would be no large feat for pirates to use plunder from one side to convince the other side they are the former, but strategically speaking I don't see much point. The pirates want to take a ship, and most likely slaughter or enslave those on board, except those worthy of ransom. Those who can not spread word of who attacked them don't need the identity of their aggressors to be hidden.

And

Both sides would undoubtedly be seeking trade across the archipelago, and strong economic partnerships would be likely formed. The north does indeed export stone and ore, but probably not iron. You can not have enough iron during a war.


Sorry for the late reply by the way, I've been (and am) sick, and it didn't even occur to me to check the forum.

No worries.

1) Well, okay. I meant to be referring to the Mysanese, but it doesn't sound like they'd want to be involved in the politics. They're still something of a buffer nation, though, simply by being in between them and blocking the way. It would get interesting if there are key passes running through the mountains which either side tries to use to their advantage, and they may even have a city along one. What kind of agreements would they have about permitting the passage of merchants and armies? What if a "merchant" caravan passes through then offloads a hundred soldiers to sack an opposing town?

2) I'll think on it a little. I think there's opportunities for intrigue with passages running through the coastal cities.

3) It is a little tough to figure out why pirates would want to protract the war, but it's also a little tough to figure out why else they'd be there. The ships coming in and out of the Harronyne are more armed and protected than ships anywhere else, just because of the war, and since they're overloaded with weapons, ships also have less cargo. Easier and richer prey is elsewhere, unless this is what they're really after. Maybe they're pirates and arms dealers, maybe they're trying to steal armed vessels so they can prepare some armada for some purpose of their own. Maybe they're secretly a third faction interested in control. What interests you? Maybe they are just pirates, and they're just using the war-zone as a cover for their base while they attack ships across the archipelago (but not locally). Regardless it'd be easier to flush them out if we could see some motives for coming to the war-zone.

The Kilvikasa market - So I think that works, but I still want to think about some ulterior motives and fascination for a group of merchants, maybe some sort of smuggling on the side, maybe they're quietly recruiting soldiers and mercenaries. Maybe it's a group trying to organize all of the above criminal underground of the Harronyne - Mysanese, smugglers, pirates - against the Queensmen, using the cover of a neutral city for their negotiations to protect them from a Queensmen assault. Would that be a place to start?

 

[Kevlar]

No worries.

1) Well, okay. I meant to be referring to the Mysanese, but it doesn't sound like they'd want to be involved in the politics. They're still something of a buffer nation, though, simply by being in between them and blocking the way. It would get interesting if there are key passes running through the mountains which either side tries to use to their advantage, and they may even have a city along one. What kind of agreements would they have about permitting the passage of merchants and armies? What if a "merchant" caravan passes through then offloads a hundred soldiers to sack an opposing town?

2) I'll think on it a little. I think there's opportunities for intrigue with passages running through the coastal cities.

3) It is a little tough to figure out why pirates would want to protract the war, but it's also a little tough to figure out why else they'd be there. The ships coming in and out of the Harronyne are more armed and protected than ships anywhere else, just because of the war, and since they're overloaded with weapons, ships also have less cargo. Easier and richer prey is elsewhere, unless this is what they're really after. Maybe they're pirates and arms dealers, maybe they're trying to steal armed vessels so they can prepare some armada for some purpose of their own. Maybe they're secretly a third faction interested in control. What interests you? Maybe they are just pirates, and they're just using the war-zone as a cover for their base while they attack ships across the archipelago (but not locally). Regardless it'd be easier to flush them out if we could see some motives for coming to the war-zone.

The Kilvikasa market - So I think that works, but I still want to think about some ulterior motives and fascination for a group of merchants, maybe some sort of smuggling on the side, maybe they're quietly recruiting soldiers and mercenaries. Maybe it's a group trying to organize all of the above criminal underground of the Harronyne - Mysanese, smugglers, pirates - against the Queensmen, using the cover of a neutral city for their negotiations to protect them from a Queensmen assault. Would that be a place to start?

1. Well, looking at the map the Mysanese probably stick within the brownish desert/badlands areas of and surrounding the mountains, so an area on each coast would be open for travel. Of course there's probably fortifications in control of this area. Merchants wouldn't be travelling through, not legeally, so smugglers would end up having to travel by sea or badlands. This would pique Mysanese interests of course, but reactions might be a little less than standard. Some might attack on sight, others might demand a toll, and still others might suggest that the smugglers purchase their services as a caravan escort. In other words keeping a tight leash on them and taking some for themselves. They probably wouldn't have much use for precious metals, except in trading with outsiders. Of course that would also increase its value in trading with eachother.

3. Historically, especially in the Caribbean, pirates took great advantage of war. They would fly under allied flags until they came close enough to board a vessel. The cannon-fights common in Hollywood films were best avoided, as the pirates wanted not just the cargo, but the ships as well. Best to avoid destroying something you want. They would also be employed by one nation as privateers, given rights to attack enemy ships and keep those ships and everything aboard. I'm not sure about the specifics, but some probably got a wage and others were just happy to be under a powerful countries (Spain's, most likely) protection.

4. (Kilvikasa) Motive largely depends on organization. Is it completely underground? Known by but not associated with the king? Affiliated with the king? Run by the king? An insane king would of course need good advisors that might be able to keep this sort of thing together.

 

[Devor]

3. Historically, especially in the Caribbean, pirates took great advantage of war. They would fly under allied flags until they came close enough to board a vessel. The cannon-fights common in Hollywood films were best avoided, as the pirates wanted not just the cargo, but the ships as well. Best to avoid destroying something you want. They would also be employed by one nation as privateers, given rights to attack enemy ships and keep those ships and everything aboard. I'm not sure about the specifics, but some probably got a wage and others were just happy to be under a powerful countries (Spain's, most likely) protection.

4. (Kilvikasa) Motive largely depends on organization. Is it completely underground? Known by but not associated with the king? Affiliated with the king? Run by the king? An insane king would of course need good advisors that might be able to keep this sort of thing together.

3) I think we might be a few hundred years apart in our thinking of pirates. Ship battles of any kind were pretty rare until the cannon made it easier to sink a ship, and that threat alone pushed most vessels into surrendering once the pirates had gotten too close. In the medieval age, especially in a territory at war where people were prepared for an attack, too many vessels would be laden with armed soldiers and a boarding raid would have caused heavy losses. Also, pirates may have taken advantage of wars, but they wouldn't have done so on the coasts of nations who are actually at war. English privateers would hunt down French vessels when they're unprepared sailing along the coast of North Africa, nowhere near French naval positions along the coast of France. So it's hard for me to see why pirates would be active in this area unless they had a stake of some kind in the war, or they were simply using the war as cover while they strike elsewhere in the Archipelago.

4) So, do you have any ideas on how to make it work and be awesome? All my cards are on the table - I want to do a Kingsman market in Kilvikasa where the merchants are secretly organizing criminal organizations against the Queensmen - and I was hoping to collaborate from here.

 

[Ravana]

Everybody has a market in Kilvikasa. (And everybody comes to Rick's, too. ) There's no reason those can't all be true at once: the king could have an official market there, could be supplying other traders on the side, could be turning a blind eye to still others (or simply not care about them), and there could be underground trading he was unaware of—possibly as a result of one of the others skimming. (They can always report the difference as "lost to pirates," if he notices the accounting doesn't seem to add up.) Guess it all depends on how crazy he is.

 

[Devor]

Everybody has a market in Kilvikasa. (And everybody comes to Rick's, too. ) There's no reason those can't all be true at once: the king could have an official market there, could be supplying other traders on the side, could be turning a blind eye to still others (or simply not care about them), and there could be underground trading he was unaware of—possibly as a result of one of the others skimming. (They can always report the difference as "lost to pirates," if he notices the accounting doesn't seem to add up.) Guess it all depends on how crazy he is.

I was loosely thinking the king turned a blind eye while one of his advisers organized it through a middleman. That way the middleman could organize things independently, while the adviser could step in on the king's authority, while the King largely chooses to remain ignorant. But that's just spitballing.

I like the irony of blaming losses on the organizations they're trying to work with, especially as some of those losses would be paying for the services of those organizations.

 

[Kevlar]

Sorry for the late reply, it gets hard when you have 500 mb to work with every month.

I like what both of you have brought up, and its led me down another line of thought. Seeing as it is firmly established tht the king is crazy, we have to assume he couldn't effectively run a government by himself. He would have advisors, lots of them. Advisors are notorious schemers when advising sane kings, let alone insane ones. Perhaps some of his advisors have their hands in dangerous pockets. One could be running the market. Another could be allied with the pirates. There are endless possibilities.