How deep are your worlds?

[Benjamin Clayborne]

The advice I would give is this: Create your characters and your story, and then build the world around them. Building a world first can be fun, but great books are never praised because of the depth of the world if the story and characters are boring.

 

[Laughing_Seraphim]

I am again inclined to state that so much story, so much color, can emerge of its own will out of a well built world. It is truly a matter of taste and good judgement to know how much is too much.
The world and the story are not the same thing, but the world impacts and frames the story. It wouldn't make sense to set a story about the assassination of Ghandi in 2005.
The world of star wars has tons of built in conflict, political lines, race lines, economic issues, good and evil factions. One could take that world, without any prior story and probably write a fantastic story out of it. Imagine the secession of the huts, the trade federation grabbing power in the absence of the empire, a rogue society of storm troopers. Those are just the ones I could think of that weren't already covered in shadows of the empire.
Again, just because there is a section of space being overrun by rogue toilette-heads, doesn't mean it needs five pages in a story about the hut rebellion. Maybe just a mention if anything. Maybe the storm troopers lend support to the huts, or put their rebellion down when it looks like they might win. All this from having it built into the world.

 

[Alva]

I'm definitely a wordlbuilder but, as many people here, I also do realize the difference between worldbuilding and storybuilding. When I initially began to write, I used to test out different settings and contexts and situations pretty much endlessly. I liked it back then and of course I was only trying to figure out how to write and what did I want to write. What was my preferred style of working? I'm forced to admit that it was a long enough period of plotless snippets. Although useful practice for later on, any of those chapters, settings etc. were truly interesting or valuable without larger context. They remained flat that way.

The way I prefer to write nowadays is to follow the characters. For instance in my current project I follow several characters of varying ages, historical backgrounds and cultural practices. It is a nice “mind- and memorygame” to try to keep up with each one of them and all the while try to picture out the larger picture. Usually I like posing all kinds of questions such as:

How do they socialize with other people? What kinds of things do they like? Where would they travel if they had a free choice to go anywhere in their world? What sort of places/facilities/shops do they visit on a daily basis and why? If they had a certain sum of money "left over" each month, where would that money go? What would they buy for a fine meal? If they use alcohol how do people around them react if they drink too much? What kind of a generalizations or misconceptions are they prone to?

So, my main emphasize while telling a story is on the culture and how people interpret their culture and other cultures. And all the while respecting the fact that none of the characters is simply a product of their culture but an individual.

Then there is the true worldbuilder part. One of my characters in fact does some of the research for me. He’s scientifically and artistically orientated, and he keeps pointing out all kinds of ridicules and oddities on the way. I like the subtle way of including clues or fantastical imagery, so a lot of the worldbuilding happens while I'm just putting words in a row, so to speak. When I have spare time but I don’t feel like writing, I may at times go on into extreme worldbuilding such as questioning photosynthesis or examining linguistics/astrodynamics/neuroscience etc.

All in all I consider the world of my characters to be full of possibilities for them. I consider worldbuilding to be an organic process after all. I can never know everything. I’m not even going to explain everything to the reader. I can only highlight things peculiar or meaningful to my characters and the story.

 

[Eeirail]

Well in counting,
I am going to list out a few things and how many pages I have.
- Creatures in storyline: 82
- Races in storyline: 180 [rounded up from 178]
- Places of significence in storyline: 36
- Charecter backgrousnds and "fitting": 16 [Needs work]
- Ideology, government, Economy, Religion: 42 [Also needs work]
- Rough drafts and bouncing ideas: 21000388400? [Have a sense of humor on this one]
- Terrain and "game" rationing: 14
- Other: 218

There is more to it, but that is what I have on the three flashdrives I have in my computer tight now. I hope this helps on how in depth i think it should be.

 

[Alva]

Well in counting,
I am going to list out a few things and how many pages I have.
- Creatures in storyline: 82
- Races in storyline: 180 [rounded up from 178]
- Places of significence in storyline: 36
- Charecter backgrousnds and "fitting": 16 [Needs work]
- Ideology, government, Economy, Religion: 42 [Also needs work]
- Rough drafts and bouncing ideas: 21000388400? [Have a sense of humor on this one]
- Terrain and "game" rationing: 14
- Other: 218

There is more to it, but that is what I have on the three flashdrives I have in my computer tight now. I hope this helps on how in depth i think it should be.

Huh. Is there a lot of traveling in your story? I'm not able to give any quick numbers since most of my planning work takes place on analogical paper, but after worldbuilding (and writing) for some years now, the amount of bouncing ideas must be at least as high as yours! : D (I can only tell for sure that I have a few more characters, by the look of it.) "Creatures" sound interesting to me, as always.

Plus, the question of cultures is more varied in my case. I couldn't give any proper number in that matter. Most of my characters live in a multicultural context so none of the main cultures are present wholly. Instead, each character has woven a comfy little net of features they personally familiarize with, from other cultures, around themselves.

 

[Anders Ämting]

I'm only 17 and I'm attempting my first real work in my free time. I've worked on designing my world and I was just wondering how in-depth your worlds go. I saw the topic about time and if you really think about it, a new world would require a new time system (days, months) and even the one o'clock, two o'clock is questionable. Many words would have to be taken out, curses, and other things I can't think of. And for all the British people on the forum, even bloody couldn't really be used. It can get really frustrating at times when you think of the scope of it all. To what extent do you guys manufacture your new worlds?

I've made a world where a day and night lasted for 26 hours, but characters still had to age the same as in the real world, which means shorter years. That was kinda tricky. Needed to do some math to get it all together.

Another tricky thing was that every single culture on this world functioned on a trinary logic basis as opposed to a binary logic basis. That means everyone in this world thought of things in terms of threes -every dichotomy turned into a trichotomy- which doesn't seem that weird until you realise how common it is for humans to think in binary logic. There was no "right or wrong", there was "right or wrong or neither", or "right or wrong or both." There was no yes or no questions, because everyone naturally assumed there would be a third option. It wasn't a matter of thinking outside the box, something they did deliberatelly - expecting a third option was thinking inside the box.

At one point a character from Earth tried to explain the concept of coin tossing to one of the natives, who didn't really get it at all, because they didn't make decisions on an "either or" basis.

 

[Eeirail]

Huh. Is there a lot of traveling in your story? I'm not able to give any quick numbers since most of my planning work takes place on analogical paper, but after worldbuilding (and writing) for some years now, the amount of bouncing ideas must be at least as high as yours! : D (I can only tell for sure that I have a few more characters, by the look of it.) "Creatures" sound interesting to me, as always.

Plus, the question of cultures is more varied in my case. I couldn't give any proper number in that matter. Most of my characters live in a multicultural context so none of the main cultures are present wholly. Instead, each character has woven a comfy little net of features they personally familiarize with, from other cultures, around themselves.

There is alot of traveling in it yes, and I am not done with charecter development, those would just be bages of the lowest detail, I have it all in my head just not all wrtten down yet, honestly, I would be better to make a video game rather then a novel but I love the writing and am no good with that stuff so I am here.

 

[Alva]

There is alot of traveling in it yes, and I am not done with charecter development, those would just be bages of the lowest detail, I have it all in my head just not all wrtten down yet, honestly, I would be better to make a video game rather then a novel but I love the writing and am no good with that stuff so I am here.

I sometimes feel that way myself, too. Although I'd maybe choose to make an animation. Many ideas on wordlbuilding in my case come from drawing and doodling and working with visual media. Even from dreaming. (And I also tend to think in pictures...) A few of my characters are very visual as well. But then I love writing and even though the translating process from moving picture to text feels at times jarring, I'm quicker and quicker in getting over it while working, already.

As many people on this thread, I don't find excessive wordlbuilding hindering anything. As long as there isn't any large scale infodumbs included in the text to slow down the story, I enjoy seeing all the work that has gone into creating a vivid and interesting world in hand. I love maps and I really, really enjoyed the extra pages in the end of "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Left Hand of Darkness", for instance. So in no way I'm here to criticize you. On the contrary. My maybe-to-be-scientist character is very intrigued by your list...

Just being curious since I've been giving a thought on this matter earlier. Do you store your notes in the form of separate text/picture files or do you have a specific writing program you use where you can create extra notes while you write?

 

[Twook00]

Honestly, I would just have to look at my favorite books and see how much is conventional and how much is original. Did I notice those things before? Did it bother me? If a reader has a problem with, say, using a common English curse word, then you might as well throw out the whole English language. Your characters aren't English, after all.

From what I can tell, most authors pick and choose what they change, or just add twists to things. In A Song of Ice and Fire, for example, there are still seasons (like summer and winter) but they can last for years, and the characters still live in castles and use swords and believe in gods, despite having a completely different history than our own. Logically, that doesn't make sense, but I still loved the books.

 

[MichaelSullivan]

I think balance is key here. Authors who don't put forth enough detail about their worlds are prone to easily forgettable worlds. Books have changed, and so have readers. No doubt the average reader has come to be more a little lazy. There is a line to be drawn between florid or descriptive work and excessively wordy work.

I agree it's all about balance.

 

[Chime85]

I find I get obsessed with worlds. On a single world, I would fill entire notebooks on the subject. If there is a history to a town, city or village, you can bet my notes have information on it.

I know it sounds obsessive, but imagine the encyclopedia, that is alot of trees. My notes in comparrison are a whimsey I admit. But on the other hand, I much prefer a living, breathing world rather than a hand wave of place names and pick pocketed historical civilisations.

xXx

 

[Sandor]

Hi!

I'm workin' on a world for a mid/low-fantasy series and I'm learning that, even if you have a strong memory (as I do, to be honest), that to bring it to life you need details, a lot.
I mean: it's not important to describe any single street or city tavern, but you have to plan foods, typical clothes, mannerisms and social behaviour. I would give a look even to average occupations and roles in society.

I guess RESEARCH is the most important thing and a good 70% of writing something.
I do believe that characters have to be deep and appealing, but without a serious environment, they'll end up as clichés.

I don't agree with the idea to create characters and then develop the world around 'em. I mean: it's important to figure out a basic "cast" of your story and for the series I'm preparing i did it too...but in the end, I develop 'em in a more realistic manner if I have a clear idea of the world in which they're born and grown, if you get what I mean.

Without a society around us, we're nothing: I try to think to my characters as realistic, living people...and to do that, I've to understand the world they're livin' in, before anything else.


So, even if I do some "pen and paper" schemes, some scratches and basic "there's X and then Y" types of visual connections, I've learnt that I couldn't avoid a more fluid wolrd building.
Now I've some "strong" and solid ideas and AT THIS POINT, you can move on and keep track of what you've created with keywords, colours or whatever you need to make links.

So, I'd say:
- think the world as a realistic, deep world, focusing more on a 1000 years history (or the like, you won't need anything more, if the history doesn't request it);
- do a RESEARCH: think about regional differences, basic races or just about eating, clothing and social life details; start with an EXISTING environment. Get some inspiration from real history is not a crime (it's pretty clear that Martin built up his world starting with medieval england-ish environment. Lancaster/Lannister anyone?).
- think about the TYPE of story you need and start finding a place for it on your world.

In the meanwhile, develope your characters: it's like havin' some black silouhettes to give colours to, and the colours are the different angles of your world.


That's clearly a "RPG wisdom kinda thing"...but who cares?
Cheers.

 

[Fluffypoodel]

I think that it depends on the world that you choose, specifically the scope. if you want to go completely original then you are going to have to really flesh your world out. I think that this approach separates the reader from your world. it would be alien and I don't think that the reader will relate to something that unique. I like to place my world in a similar world to own own. personally I get caught up in the world building (200+ pages of notes for a halfway fleshed pout world) so I don't think its as important to go in depth as it is to have good characters. I think that's the most important part.