Fantasy religions

[Ravana]

January is for Janus, the Roman god of thresholds, who looks both forward and back. June, I would guess, is related to Juno, March to Mars; I'd have to check about the rest, though I would suspect these come from Latin sources as well.

I see no reason why societies, even an entire world, could have evolved without ever postulating religion. In many ways, it seems at least as far-fetched to me to imagine unseen, mighty beings running the world as it does to imagine that people wouldn't make them up to "explain" things they didn't understand.

 

[Mdnight Falling]

July is and august are for roman rules.... I dunno about the rest LMAO

 

[Ophiucha]

Googled a bit. February comes from the name of a ritual that occurred in the second month of the lunar calendar. April is ambiguous, but may derive from an alternative name for Venus/Aphrodite. May comes from Maia, a Greek goddess. So that covers all of them. Basically, the first six are named after something religious, the seventh and eighth come from Caesars, and the last four are just Seven, Eight, Nine, and Ten. (In case you cared, the calendar was originally ten months, which is why they aren't Nine, Ten, Eleven, and Twelve.)

 

[Mdnight Falling]

WOOT! That was actually really interesting >.< I think I need a life if things like this get my interest so fully LOL

 

[Falunel]

@Donny Bruso: Oddly, though I'm a logic-oriented person, I constantly play with thought-experiment questions because they have so many possible answers. Might be because of my not-logical notion that everything needs a logical reason...

@Ravana: The setup goes like this:
Early ages: everyone worshipped the same gods, in the same way, and the gods essentially stepped in to make sure everything stayed calm and played nice. So everyone recieved the same amount of aid, and people were okay with each other.
Then some kind of huge cataclysm occured- what it was exactly, I'm not certain. But it killed most of the Ancients and broke the bonds between the gods and the world, rendering the gods unable to intervene. At this point, the world falls into chaos, and here the original faith begins to diverge. Fast forward a thousand or so years, and there's the world as it stands today, with the same gods portrayed in many different ways, along with the emergence of atheism and other, non-original religions starting to bud.
Right now, I'm going through and trying to patch up the holes. Your post really helped, especially with that last question.

@Ophiucha: Thanks for the information. Now I wonder why they even switched over to calling God a different name, though. Might be just laziness/some kind of religious exclusivity...
I remember studying ancient China in World History. The country had a form of ancestor worship and the emperor was considered divinely ordained, but its perception of the afterlife is different- the afterlife is essentially a continuation of current life, with bureaucracies and classes. IIRC, some Native Americans saw the afterlife the same way- you hunted and went to war.
Back to China- the driving force wasn't ancestor worship, though, but Confucianism. Most of life didn't focus around worship, but keeping things ordered and harmonious. It was more important to obey elders and superiors than it was to worship, and your age/rank determined a lot. Hopefully I didn't leave anything important out.

 

[Ophiucha]

I would imagine that one guy decided to write God in his translation of the Bible and it happened to catch on. That tends to be the way of these things. And yeah, that is true of China, they cared far more for philosophy than for religion, and even the religion they did have did not serve the same purpose as it did in Ancient Greece or Egypt. There are a lot of small civilizations with some rather odd 'evolutionary' chains, some of which essentially had no religion at all. I think more fantasy writers/people in general could do to study them, see what makes them different.

 

[Mdnight Falling]

In certain religious texts it's said God has 99 names.. the most common one used in the holy bible is "I AM" as in "I am who I am" or "I Am sent me" etc... I've learned most of the names God has.. aren't names at all they are attributes Like Gracious, merciful. etc. But yes these are names that people called God too. They say the 99th name is the actual name it's forbidden to say it Why I dunno. I know I'd prefer to call someone but their real name rather than by "nick names" or "assumed" names... but alas this is the world the bible was written and rewritten in. So we today don't even know ALL 99 names God was given other then a few like the ones the Jews called him which I can't remember the letters that make up the word but phonetically it's pronounced, "Yaway", and the attribute names and I AM, and God, Lord, and whatever else you decide to call the divine entity that pulls ours strings.. But we still do not know the beings true name nor what he looks like.

I think that's the true basis behind religion, even if it's a faux religion in a book. It isn't knowing that the "god" is there actually listening, or knowing what to call it. It isn't even a question of whether or not it truly exists or not. It's simply something to believe, to give faith and comfort in a time of need or thanks in a time of joy. And it's for these reasons religion plays a large part in the creation of fantasy novels. Just like we.. Even if we don't believe formally in God... everyone needs something to believe in, disbelieve in, or dislike >^.^<

 

[Ophiucha]

@Mdnight; I'd tend to agree, at least in regards to Earth religions where the idea of God is an unknown. This is something I explore in my own work, actually, since fantasy so often forgoes 'belief' and skips right over to 'worship'. Many, many fantasy stories have their gods as certainties. They are not "maybe yes, maybe no" gods like ours, where (save a few who can logically be disproved), we are for the most part left waiting for death to know for sure. In my own story, the creatures called deities are without a shadow of a doubt real, and their impact on magic and the world is inarguable. It is the question of worship that drives one's theism - if you praise, fear, revere, whatever these creatures, you are religious, and if you don't, you aren't. I think that plays a small part in our own religions as well. Is belief in God alone enough to make one religious, or is it the reverence of God that makes one religious?

 

[Mdnight Falling]

Hmmm.. That's an excellent question there. Belief alone in OUR world is usually enough to make someone a believer... if not overly religious. In fantasy books like tamora Pierce's Immortal's Quartet, The gods separate themselves from people.. though sometimes, they mingle in ways they know they shouldn't which is why Dane had the wild magic.. but Dane even though she was half god, didn't know she was. her mother kept it from her. and unless I'm mistaken and need to re-read my tortall books, Dane also didn't truly believe in the gods until the immortals escaped from the god Realm. So really it all depends on the circumstances of the char I suppose I feel personally, religion in stories is not very different then religion in the "real" world. the gods usually just have different names and most of the time, they are a fact not an assumption. which grounds the religion more if you ask me Let's be realistic. you can't be atheist if god is standing right in front of you and you KNOW it's God.. Even if you don't want to believe it to be

Oddly enough.. I think religion is the one thing I've actually managed to successfully leave completely out of my story LOL! It just dawned on me that there are no gods.. well no I do reference one god in my story. but it's not major. I mean religion isn't really a part of my story LOL

 

[Ophiucha]

Let's be realistic. you can't be atheist if god is standing right in front of you and you KNOW it's God.. Even if you don't want to believe it to be

That is, in fact, exactly what I believe. I believe that we cannot know in a God or not, because there is no proof (but there is no counterproof, either, so I accept the chance), but I consider myself an atheist because no matter which God it is, and no matter how true I knew him to be, I couldn't follow or worship them. Even if their ideals perfectly matched my own. This translates into my story where Gods exist, and are undoubtedly the creators of magic and their world, but my characters (the atheist ones, at least) do not worship, praise, or fear them. They acknowledge their significance in the world, but they do not do their bidding or pray to them or follow their laws (beyond the ones that are universal).

This is why I think belief is only really one side of the coin. You have to be able to respect a God in order to be a true theist. Could you call yourself a Christian if you believe in God, but do not like God, perhaps even hate God, and you do not follow his teachings? I don't think so.

 

[Mdnight Falling]

Of course not. then again in our world, there is no proof that god exists. In our world religion regardless of what form God takes to said religion, is mostly based on belief. you belief there is a higher power so you strive to emulate the wishes of said higher power. But even in our world the ones that "follow" god truly don't. If they did. there wouldn't be religious wars, christians wouldn't hate jews and muslims...Mormons wouldn't think they're the only ones getting into heaven.. etc... In every religious book I've read and I've read the three majors.. the torrah, the Koran, and the Holy Bible, it clearly states that we are not the judges of the world. That it isn't our place to judge other people's actions or ways. That we are not to hate someone simply because they believe things differently then we do... Yet, EVERY person in the world does or has done just that...so my next question to you is what is religion? Does a true follow of any god really exist or are we simply no better then the "evil doers" we condemn in our stories for doing what we ourselves do

I think the reason religion has played such a strong point in fiction novels, and not just fantasy ones either... read some ayn Rand she's epic on religion once you forget that the book is really about philosophy LOL,... Is because we all want to strive to be what we should, what is embedded in us to be good. After all the characters we write about come from ourselves. so isn't it safe to say that while we have written this great story that millions of people have read and still talk about, that when you look back.. It was simply our selves the good guys foiled and ourselves the villain tried to foil. In any book I think it's essential to sit back and look it over from your inner self and see why the story hits the notes in your heart the way it does. Perhaps there's a part of you, a small part of you, that wishes you really did fully and completely believe in god.. Or if you ARE a devout religious person, there may be a small part of you that wishes you weren't so much the "I'm holier than thou art" type

 

[Ophiucha]

I guess that would explain why, good or evil, any character who gets more than a line of dialogue in my story is an atheist.

 

[Mdnight Falling]

LOL! More then likely. Our characters are nothing more then reflections of ourselves. our good, bad, actual, etc each character is like an attribute of ourselves >^.^< That's my belief anyway. and there's nothing wrong with being an Atheist. I, personally fully believe in god and am pettrified of not doing what ever he put me to do, but It isn't my place to judge others. If god never intended there to be other kinds of people, then there wouldn't be so be proud that you're who you are >^.^<

 

[Donny Bruso]

Could you call yourself a Christian if you believe in God, but do not like God, perhaps even hate God, and you do not follow his teachings? I don't think so.

I think maybe you don't know enough Christians, because that's exactly what a large number of them do... While trying to convert you to be like them.

As far as myself, I make a distinction between believing and being religious. I believe in God. However, I do not attend church services, save weddings/funerals (at which time I get a severe case of nervousness that I will burst into flame as I enter the building) I don't read my bible, and I don't practice the tenets of the faith that I was raised in. So I would call myself a believer, but definitely not religious.

I will cheerfully sit and discuss the ins and outs of religion with people all day long, as long as they don't preach at me. Organized religion is, in my opinion, a complete and utter sham designed to herd people like the sheep they choose to be. I think I'll excuse myself to get a towel to wipe up the little puddle of cynicism that dripped off of that statement and call it quits before I offend anyone who does happen to be religious, which was certainly not my intent.

 

[Chilari]

I think there's also the issue of monoreligionism, which is a word I just made up, but bear with me. It is assumed that one can belong to one religion only, probably because several of the main religions in the modern world dictate that no other deity can be worshipped alongside their's. But not all religions are mutually exclusive. The way the ancient Greeks worshipped was to effectively believe unquestioningly in the entire Olympiad, but to select one or two of them to worship primarily. Hence you got priests of Poseidon but no priests of all the gods or, until the Roman Pantheon, temples to all the gods. While you could argue that this was monoreligiousism, I would also like to point out that both the Greeks and later the Romans were quite happy to add a god from a different culture to their list - Serapis, for example, or Isis. And the Romans were happy to incorporate the deities of cultures they absorbed into worship by linking the indigenous god to a Roman one. Hence you get Sulis Minerva at Bath in England - Sulis, goddess of the hot spring there, was likened to Minerva, Roman goddess of intelligence and feminine crafts, due to various similarities.

Enabling religions to not be mutually exclusive would be a very interesting thing to see in a novel. Also in protest to the assumption of monoreligioism in the 21st century, I am considering putting down Discordianism, Athorism, Pastafarianism and Invisible Pink Unicornism down in the religion section of the census when it comes round later this month in the UK. They aren't mutually exclusive, provided Eris is considered the foremost and none of them are Thor in disguise. Which they're not, because as an Athorist I don't believe in Thor.

While in real life I am in fact an atheist, I don't want to be, well, preachy about it in my writing. I don't believe in any superior being, but I could be wrong. I want tehre to be that uncertainty in my stories too - while my characters generally assume the gods are there, some continuing to worship them while others seek to rebel against them since they blame the gods for the plague, there is no undeniable evidence one way or the other for anything they say or for the existance of the gods at all, but similarly there is no proof that the gods do not exist.

 

[Mdnight Falling]

Bravo Donny! I couldn't have said it better.. And Chilari... I love that you're forming your own dictionary! I have my own too >.> LMAO! Anyway, the whole "you can be only one religion" is a crock. that's what society says.. I for one think outside the box. when asked my relgion I say "God" really ask anyone LOL Why? Because I have been, Jewish which I was born, christian, Baptist (I swear they are just their own thing >.<), Muslam, Buddist, and Wiccan. NONE of them sat fully with me. christians trash everyone who aren't christians, jews think they own they own the world (money wise maybe,... but let's face facts money=evil), Buddists are far too detached from the events of the world.. Though I'd love to learn Ta-chi and warrior monk stuff! and Wiccans are too confused within their OWN sectors to really pay attention to the reasons others don't count them as being a "real" religion even though they have been acknowledged in the US since 1935 as a legit religion.

I took the points that spoke to me.. the things all the religious books had in common as to what a godly person does and does not do. I want to be as close to god as possible. I don't believe that can truly be achieved unless you look into EVERYTHING written on the subject. So I have personally read the three major Holy books of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. I have also read about Buddah and I THRIVE of the Tao Te Ching.. My daughter loves the Tao of Pooh and the Te of Piglet which is Buddism told by the only true buddist I know.. Winnie the Pooh. The thing about religion is this. If you aren't 100% comfortable with how you are "forced" of have chosen to be religious, then don't do it.. Find the path that is for you. And always remember.. Our time is not god's, our arms aren't long enough to box with God... and God is the only judge of the people of the world not us >^.^< You'll be happier when you stop looking at the flaws in people and see the good points instead trust me >^.^<

 

[Donny Bruso]

@Chilari - The Invisible Pink Unicorns were supposed to be a secret. Now you've gone and let them out of the bag. Do you know how hard it is to recapture an Invisible Pink Unicorn? sigh

 

[Ravana]

Do you know how hard it is to recapture an Invisible Pink Unicorn?

Hmm… can't say as I do, since I've never seen one. Or have I…?

Is this the proper forum for me to reveal that I am the Duly Elected Messiah of the Church of the Carnivorous Eggplant?

(Believe it or not, that's not a joke. I really am. Long story.)

 

[Dragonsooth]

It sounds to me that, despite your personal aethism, your characters may have need of something to believe in(or an antagonist, not sure). That you believe as you do and would go through the work to create that in your universe is atypical to the given laziness many of us feel concerining subjects we find trivial at best. Kudos, thank you for bothering to add a layer of realism to your world!

 

[Mdnight Falling]

Hmm… can't say as I do, since I've never seen one. Or have I…?

Is this the proper forum for me to reveal that I am the Duly Elected Messiah of the Church of the Carnivorous Eggplant?

(Believe it or not, that's not a joke. I really am. Long story.)

Do tell Ravana.. I'm sure we're all curious LOL

And Donny.. Dude the pink unicorns aren't THAT hard to catch! You need that new fangle contraption that was made to catch them x.x! Gimme a minute or two the name will come to me >.>