Where is the line between a good fantasy story with substantial romantic subplot and romantic story with fantasy elements? The romantic subplot is a very important part of the novel I'm working on at the moment, but the conflict don't arises from it. I don't want to cut the subplot, but I don't want to make it the main plot and ignore some of the worldbilding and characters that have noting to with it. What's your opinion on romantic subplots?
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Fantasy and romantic subplots
- Thread starter valiant12
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BWFoster78
Mythic Scribe
Valiant
One thing I love about epic fantasy (though I don't know if you're writing epic fantasy) is that it's a mix of a bunch of different genres. You've got romance, action/adventure, combat, coming of age, political thriller, and others all rolled into one, and you can mix those elements in whatever quantities you see fit.
I've tried to read a few of my wife's romance books and found them horribly boring. On the other hand, I absolutely love books with strong romantic subplots.
I think that there's only so much "does he/she like me" that I can take as far as the driving force for tension, but, throw that tension on top of being chased by a dragon, and I'm in.
Wait. What was the question again?
Thanks.
Brian
One thing I love about epic fantasy (though I don't know if you're writing epic fantasy) is that it's a mix of a bunch of different genres. You've got romance, action/adventure, combat, coming of age, political thriller, and others all rolled into one, and you can mix those elements in whatever quantities you see fit.
I've tried to read a few of my wife's romance books and found them horribly boring. On the other hand, I absolutely love books with strong romantic subplots.
I think that there's only so much "does he/she like me" that I can take as far as the driving force for tension, but, throw that tension on top of being chased by a dragon, and I'm in.
Wait. What was the question again?
Thanks.
Brian
IstariRomantic subplots can--and should--contain conflict. How else do you think all of those romance authors sell their work? Love isn't an easy thing to experience the majority of the time. And something I read recently mentioned that in romance stories, the love interest is the antagonist.
If you don't want to cut the subplot then don't, but create conflict from it. Every (sub)plot should include it anyway.
Also, you can interweave the subplots in your story. Have the same characters from your main plot also be characters in the romance subplot. Create a character web where everyone is affected by what others do. There's no reason why you should have to give up on a subplot.
If you don't want to cut the subplot then don't, but create conflict from it. Every (sub)plot should include it anyway.
Also, you can interweave the subplots in your story. Have the same characters from your main plot also be characters in the romance subplot. Create a character web where everyone is affected by what others do. There's no reason why you should have to give up on a subplot.
When I started planning my big epic fantasy story I wanted to write in my setting I discovered that there were plot holes - not just a few, but billions of them. That's how if felt at least. I decided to put the epic on hold and let it mature for a while and in the meantime I'd write something basic and simple. After all, I'd never written a novel before and I didn't know if I could do it. I figured if I picked something basic, then I wouldn't have to worry about plot holes and world building and historical context and what not.
So I figured: "boy meets girl" that's simple, right?
A year and a half later I'm finished with the first draft, and still far away from being published. It's totally a romance in a fantasy setting. Most of the world building I did isn't even mentioned and most of the rest is merely a backdrop. Still, it's clear and definite to whoever reads it that it's some kind of fantasy setting - just not on a grand scale.
My advice?
Don't cut out the romance subplot. It may not be important to the overall outcome of the story, but it may be important to the characters the story is about - and that's important.
So I figured: "boy meets girl" that's simple, right?
A year and a half later I'm finished with the first draft, and still far away from being published. It's totally a romance in a fantasy setting. Most of the world building I did isn't even mentioned and most of the rest is merely a backdrop. Still, it's clear and definite to whoever reads it that it's some kind of fantasy setting - just not on a grand scale.
My advice?
Don't cut out the romance subplot. It may not be important to the overall outcome of the story, but it may be important to the characters the story is about - and that's important.
Generally speaking, subplots should support the main plot in a significant way. It doesn't necessarily have to have conflict but it must help the main character in a way that makes solving issues with the main plot possible.
For example in Star Wars the main plot was to destroy the Deathstar. The romantic subplots was rescue the princess. The spiritual subplot was Luke learning to be a Jedi like his father.
The romantic subplot leads Luke to the alliance. The spiritual subplot allows Luke to use the force to destroy the Deathstar.
See how these three plots are twined. Pull one out and the main plot ends in failure. If your romantic subplot doesn't contribute then it's dead weight.
On a side note. All stories have emotional subplots like the ones I mentioned above. Sometimes they're prominent. Other times they're in the background, but without them to support the main plot, it's more difficult to get emotional change to happen and/or to get a character to an AH-HA moment.
Subplots are helpers that support the main plot. In addition they give the reader a break from the main plot, giving the reader time to absorb things and reflect. That reflection, again, aids the character in change or in problem solving.
For example. Sub plots can be really small. You can have a subplot where a character feeds a stray dog. Later on in the story, the character is attacked by some thugs and the dog chases them away. OR the villain kills the dog in front of the character and that enrages them and they get a surge of energy enabling them to fight the dozen henchmen that stand in the way of the character and the villain.
For example in Star Wars the main plot was to destroy the Deathstar. The romantic subplots was rescue the princess. The spiritual subplot was Luke learning to be a Jedi like his father.
The romantic subplot leads Luke to the alliance. The spiritual subplot allows Luke to use the force to destroy the Deathstar.
See how these three plots are twined. Pull one out and the main plot ends in failure. If your romantic subplot doesn't contribute then it's dead weight.
On a side note. All stories have emotional subplots like the ones I mentioned above. Sometimes they're prominent. Other times they're in the background, but without them to support the main plot, it's more difficult to get emotional change to happen and/or to get a character to an AH-HA moment.
Subplots are helpers that support the main plot. In addition they give the reader a break from the main plot, giving the reader time to absorb things and reflect. That reflection, again, aids the character in change or in problem solving.
For example. Sub plots can be really small. You can have a subplot where a character feeds a stray dog. Later on in the story, the character is attacked by some thugs and the dog chases them away. OR the villain kills the dog in front of the character and that enrages them and they get a surge of energy enabling them to fight the dozen henchmen that stand in the way of the character and the villain.
I recently submitted a story to an agent and am going through this exact issue. Is my book romantic fantasy or fantasy romance? I learned that the line between those genre classifications is distinct (a thing I never knew). Romantic fantasy is where the romance is the bigger plot, whereas the fantasy is in the background, more setting than story. Fantasy romance is a fantasy story in which there are typical fantasy elements (maybe a quest, monsters, typical fantasy characters or races) and the romance is a sub plot. (disclaimer: this was according to one agent's site, so I'm not sure her definitions are typical or even verifiable, I was just excited someone cared enough about the distinction to give them classifications--it validated what I do in a way.)
So....I think since agents bother to classify them both, there doesn't need to be a line. Write whichever way you like it and agents will be available to be submitted to and readers will enjoy your work regardless of whether the fantasy or the romance is more prominent.
As far as which way is a better goal...this is all down to personal taste. Like Brian, I find typical romance rather dull. The plots are often thin, the conflicts leans toward "I just don't want to lose you" and the overall characterization tends to be two-dimensional compared to other forms of story-telling. I write mostly romantic stories in fantasy worlds, where the fantasy is prominent, the main goals usually are quest-like (we need to save the dragons/ an army is marching down on our kingdom/ the gods are in trouble) and the love stories are less typical romance and more personal conflict and family-based.
If you have a clear goal of how you want to strike a balance between the love story and the fantasy story in your novel, consider each scene a sort of ingredient in the recipe of success. If one spice begins to overpower the dish, consider how you can scale it back with pacing and complexity, and focus on adding in the elements that will achieve just the right flavor you're hoping for.
Really, I don't think you can go wrong. As long as you focus on good writing, solid plot lines (whether romantic or fantasy) and compelling characters, you'll find readers who enjoy that particular ratio of love and fantasy. That's the thing about writing--you'll find what's "too mushy" for one reader will melt another. What's "a lukewarm romance" for others will feel like just the right amount of time spent developing a love story for others.
One thing that may help you in the future, is to give the finished first draft to four or five people who fit your target demographic and let them tell you what they think of the plots of the story. If you're writing for readers of epic fantasy who enjoy love stories, you might find certain romantic scenes make certain readers feel uncomfortable or bored because they expect more time to be given to fantasy elements, just like if you are writing for readers who enjoy hot and heavy love stories, they may feel like a romance that never goes beyond a few stolen kisses and one confession of feelings isn't quite what they expected. I think it's really hard to know your demographic when you set out to write a book, but once the draft is complete, feedback from who you think will want to read the book is key in achieving the right balance to keep those prospective future readers satisfied, whichever way you decide to go.
HA! Some of the most flattering comments I've heard are from my male beta readers who really enjoy my version of romance in my fantasy novels (not that men don't like to read about love, but some tend to be put off by it as a main plot if it isn't written in a compelling and relatable way, like soap opera romances). I call them my "converts" because I was sort of dumbstruck when even people outside my target demographic told me how much they enjoyed the love scenes I've written. Like, Wha? Really? Sweet! I'll take it!
I hope that helps you worry less about it and just keep writing.
Best wishes.
So....I think since agents bother to classify them both, there doesn't need to be a line. Write whichever way you like it and agents will be available to be submitted to and readers will enjoy your work regardless of whether the fantasy or the romance is more prominent.
As far as which way is a better goal...this is all down to personal taste. Like Brian, I find typical romance rather dull. The plots are often thin, the conflicts leans toward "I just don't want to lose you" and the overall characterization tends to be two-dimensional compared to other forms of story-telling. I write mostly romantic stories in fantasy worlds, where the fantasy is prominent, the main goals usually are quest-like (we need to save the dragons/ an army is marching down on our kingdom/ the gods are in trouble) and the love stories are less typical romance and more personal conflict and family-based.
If you have a clear goal of how you want to strike a balance between the love story and the fantasy story in your novel, consider each scene a sort of ingredient in the recipe of success. If one spice begins to overpower the dish, consider how you can scale it back with pacing and complexity, and focus on adding in the elements that will achieve just the right flavor you're hoping for.
Really, I don't think you can go wrong. As long as you focus on good writing, solid plot lines (whether romantic or fantasy) and compelling characters, you'll find readers who enjoy that particular ratio of love and fantasy. That's the thing about writing--you'll find what's "too mushy" for one reader will melt another. What's "a lukewarm romance" for others will feel like just the right amount of time spent developing a love story for others.
One thing that may help you in the future, is to give the finished first draft to four or five people who fit your target demographic and let them tell you what they think of the plots of the story. If you're writing for readers of epic fantasy who enjoy love stories, you might find certain romantic scenes make certain readers feel uncomfortable or bored because they expect more time to be given to fantasy elements, just like if you are writing for readers who enjoy hot and heavy love stories, they may feel like a romance that never goes beyond a few stolen kisses and one confession of feelings isn't quite what they expected. I think it's really hard to know your demographic when you set out to write a book, but once the draft is complete, feedback from who you think will want to read the book is key in achieving the right balance to keep those prospective future readers satisfied, whichever way you decide to go.
HA! Some of the most flattering comments I've heard are from my male beta readers who really enjoy my version of romance in my fantasy novels (not that men don't like to read about love, but some tend to be put off by it as a main plot if it isn't written in a compelling and relatable way, like soap opera romances). I call them my "converts" because I was sort of dumbstruck when even people outside my target demographic told me how much they enjoyed the love scenes I've written. Like, Wha? Really? Sweet! I'll take it!
I hope that helps you worry less about it and just keep writing.
Best wishes.
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MineOwnKing
Scribal Lord
I'm creating a gadget in my mad scientist workshop called a 'roman-tometer'. Upon completion, a manuscript can be scanned by the device and stamped for the correct marketing placement.
Any attempts to incorrectly market a stamped novel, will release the soul urchin from his cage.....you don't want to meet that guy.
Use of the device may cause birth defects, random portal anomalies to an alternate dimension, and erections lasting more than 4 hours.
Whatever you do, don't press the big flashing button with the happy face on it.
Any attempts to incorrectly market a stamped novel, will release the soul urchin from his cage.....you don't want to meet that guy.
Use of the device may cause birth defects, random portal anomalies to an alternate dimension, and erections lasting more than 4 hours.
Whatever you do, don't press the big flashing button with the happy face on it.
cupiscent
Mystagogue
Everything Caged Maiden said is spot on, for my money. 
Write what makes you delighted. There will be other people it delights as well.
Me, I love a strong romantic subplot given a good balance against other concerns. It just rings true to me. Even when people are wrestling with other stuff in their lives - school, work, family concerns, dragons - we're often still strongly interested in connecting with other people. Plus a romance is a great additional leg-up to the stakes. We have to save the world because, well, the world, duh, but also because otherwise we'll never get to spend our lives together!
Write what makes you delighted. There will be other people it delights as well.Me, I love a strong romantic subplot given a good balance against other concerns. It just rings true to me. Even when people are wrestling with other stuff in their lives - school, work, family concerns, dragons - we're often still strongly interested in connecting with other people. Plus a romance is a great additional leg-up to the stakes. We have to save the world because, well, the world, duh, but also because otherwise we'll never get to spend our lives together!