Dragonslaying

[Butterfly]

A hail of arrows to rip through the wings and ground the brute... then charge the ballistae in to close quarters (need lots of these), then 'FIRE!!!' the captain cried. 'Send it to OBLIVION!!!'

 

[Zero Angel]

Has anyone mentioned dragonshouts from Skyrim yet?

THAT is the way the dovahkiin kills dragons.

 

[Anders Ämting]

Has anyone mentioned dragonshouts from Skyrim yet?

THAT is the way the dovahkiin kills dragons.

This files under "use magic", basically.

 

[Shockley]

The Bellerophon myth is unique in how he kills the chimera - he throws his lance directly at the middle head (which is breathing fire) - the head is made of lead, so it scalds and chokes the chimera to death.

Outside of that, my favorite method was in Pratchett's 'Guards! Guards!' The Night Watch decide to shoot down the dragon. They understand that thousand-to-one odds always succeed in Discworld, so they go about making their situation worse than it already is. They pick their worst archer, force him to stand on one leg and bend over before shooting. (Despite that, the odds are only 999-to-1. Hilarity ensues, natch.)

 

[Zero Angel]

This files under "use magic", basically.

I wasn't trying to classify it...just saying it was awesome

 

[Mindfire]

Also this:

 

[Mindfire]

And this:

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I don't think I'd rate the ballista method at all. Against a moving target they'd be pretty poor, and against a flying one, worse. And as for melee weapons, well that's one way to get eaten.

However in one of mine I did use an archer, I just gave the arrow a few magical properties. In another that I haven't finished, I turned an ordinary arrow into the equivalent of a cruise missile. That would be my way to fight a dragon. Think range, rapid fire and staying out of the way of their teeth and fire. Preferably firing from a protected location.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Devor]

I don't think I'd rate the ballista method at all. Against a moving target they'd be pretty poor, and against a flying one, worse.

Have you ever been to a shooting range? It isn't hard to shoot a moving taget, even a flying one, if you know how to adjust your aim for the movements. It's called "leading" the target. Ballistas can be extremely maneuverable, and the Romans had ballistas that shot with tremendous accuracy. And a dragon is a big target. Hitting one with a ballista? Not so difficult as you might think.

 

[Mindfire]

Think range, rapid fire and staying out of the way of their teeth and fire. Preferably firing from a protected location.

Unless you're the Dragonborn, in which case rules no longer apply.


Ok, no more Skyrim jokes. Promise. But Psychotick makes a good point. Ordinary humans have zero chance at taking a dragon head-on. So you have three options: use an unconventional dragon, use an extraordinary hero, or have the hero kill the dragon using stealth, ingenuity, and as much firepower as he can muster.

 

[Zero Angel]

Have you ever been to a shooting range? It isn't hard to shoot a moving taget, even a flying one, if you know how to adjust your aim for the movements. It's called "leading" the target. Ballistas can be extremely maneuverable, and the Romans had ballistas that shot with tremendous accuracy. And a dragon is a big target. Hitting one with a ballista? Not so difficult as you might think.

I think the issue at hand here might be that most people think of Warcraft II ballista when they think of ballista and not just, you know, a standing powerful crossbow.

The ballista I have experience with do not fire real ballista bolts, but they are very inaccurate. I would expect a real ballista to be extremely accurate due to increased power and aerodynamics of the bolt. At least as accurate as a crossbow.

 

[Zero Angel]

Ok, no more Skyrim jokes. Promise. But Psychotick makes a good point. Ordinary humans have zero chance at taking a dragon head-on. So you have three options: use an unconventional dragon, use an extraordinary hero, or have the hero kill the dragon using stealth, ingenuity, and as much firepower as he can muster.

I write superhero fantasy, so extraordinary heroes all the way. But some of my short stories delve into other genres, so I'm down with a normal hume taking down a dragon with stealth, ingenuity and as much firepower as possible.

 

[psychotick]

Hi Devor,

Actually in my opinion the ancient ballistae were of questionable effect. They were neither siege engines which could be devastating against a stationary target such as a fortification, nor bows which could be quickly aimed and fired at an oncomming enemy. But the Romans when they conquored the Greeks did a lot of work with them to make them superior weapons.

They would have had some value against an enemy army, where the target is essentially enormous because it's dispersed. This value was further enhanced by replacing the heavy darts and stones they could fire with shot. But shot would be of little effect against an armoured creature such as a dragon. And they were said to be very accurate and have a longer range than other weapons of their day. But the longer the range, the longer the time to impact, and the more you need your target to either be still or maintain a predictable course. To my mind their most useful role was as a shipboard weapon where they had the power to puncture hulls and the target was large and relatively slow to turn. I don't see either of these conditions applying to a dragon.

From memory many of the improvements the Romans made to ballistae were centred around making them smaller and lighter, and more mobile, culminating in the development of the scorpion. But smaller and lighter also makes them less powerful, and at some point the weapon would not longer be able to puncture the dragon's scales. The whole thing becomes a trade off between speed and accuracy and power.

Though it didn't come until far later, the longbow (especially the double recurved and later the compund versions) is in my view the champion of bow weapons, and probably the weapon I would choose to use against a dragon. And if you could have some fine steel tips, so much the better.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[psychotick]

Hi Wordwalker,

Just thought of a tenth way, and though I can only think of it being used in Men in Black, I have a vague memory of it being used against dragons as well. Get swallowed whole by the beast, then cut your way out of its stomach. Of course the tricky part is making sure he doesn't chew!

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Mindfire]

Hi Wordwalker,

Just thought of a tenth way, and though I can only think of it being used in Men in Black, I have a vague memory of it being used against dragons as well. Get swallowed whole by the beast, then cut your way out of its stomach. Of course the tricky part is making sure he doesn't chew!

Cheers, Greg.

If I recall, large reptilian predators like T. Rex didn't really chew, they tended to either swallow the prey whole, or shred it into large chunks and swallow them. My guess is a dragon would probably do the same. Better hope your dragon is the whole-swallowing kind and nothe shredding kind. And also that you can fight down it's throat. And that it's digestive juices don't kill you.

 

[Devor]

They would have had some value against an enemy army, where the target is essentially enormous because it's dispersed. This value was further enhanced by replacing the heavy darts and stones they could fire with shot. But shot would be of little effect against an armoured creature such as a dragon. And they were said to be very accurate and have a longer range than other weapons of their day. But the longer the range, the longer the time to impact, and the more you need your target to either be still or maintain a predictable course. To my mind their most useful role was as a shipboard weapon where they had the power to puncture hulls and the target was large and relatively slow to turn. I don't see either of these conditions applying to a dragon.

Fair enough, but that's fairly textbook. Range may mean a longer time to target, but it also means the target is less likely to be concerned with you. A dependable movement path isn't that difficult requirement to meet - it's still only seconds, and dragons are a big target.

As for the longbow, it's a great weapon but I think it's been oversold. While it can pierce chainmail with the right arrowhead, it did so by exploiting the weaknesses of chainmail. The same arrowhead would probably be useless against scales, and I don't think the blunter arrowheads designed to break platemail would penetrate far enough into the dragon's skin to get your killing shot. Breaking scales plus getting depth is a lot to accomplish with one shot - I don't think you can do it without the kind of force you can get with a ballista.

(edit) Blunt isn't the right word for platemail piercing arrows, but the point holds. I'm on the kindle or I'd look it up.

 

[Jabrosky]

If I recall, large reptilian predators like T. Rex didn't really chew, they tended to either swallow the prey whole, or shred it into large chunks and swallow them. My guess is a dragon would probably do the same. Better hope your dragon is the whole-swallowing kind and nothe shredding kind. And also that you can fight down it's throat. And that it's digestive juices don't kill you.

The incredibly awesome thing about tyrannosaurids, and most especially Tyrannosaurus rex, is that they had the most powerful jaws of any terrestrial carnivores (7,868 to 12,814 lbs of force for T. Rex). They may not have systematically masticated their food like we do, but their bites could easily shatter bone. If a dragon could bite you the way a T. Rex would, you would really be screwed.

By the way, as someone who loves the idea of people fighting large and dangerous animals, I'm grateful for a discussion like this.

 

[Mindfire]

not the*

fit down its throat*

 

[Richard Sutton]

So: have I missed anything?

Yes. Simply overfed, they explode from the associated gastric issues that accompany fire breath, as in Terry Pratchett's Guards! Guards!

 

[glutton]

Rose does it ole school, running through the dragon's breath with her sword style.

THE ROSY ONE.