Beta Reading

[Leif Notae]

s there anything that beta readers can do to make the process better?

Other than the knowledge of what a story is, how to process a story, how the story structure goes, how literacy works, and to not react with raw emotion and feeling to something they might not like?

Nope. They just need to keep reading and get used to some of the bumps with the territory.

 

[BWFoster78]

We're not being forced to use every suggestion voiced. Why wouldn't you wish to hear them all though?

Part of me agrees with you; all input is good input.

Another part of me says: sometimes input is noise, and sometimes noise gets in the way of productivity.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

....sometimes input is noise, and sometimes noise gets in the way of productivity.

In that case, I'd say the author needs to select better, more constructive beta readers.

If its someone whose vision you value & opinion you respect, would you consider their comments noise? I wouldn't. If I did they wouldn't be reading for me.

 

[Ankari]

Granted, most of that is the responsibility of the author, but is there anything that beta readers can do to make the process better?

This thread has derived into how the author absorbs the information from a beta reader. To get things back on track, here are some suggestions:

• Tell the author what books you like and appreciate. Go a bit further and rank the top ten series/stand alone novels so the author knows what you appreciate the most.
• Communicate with your author. Get feedback on your feedback.
• Build a rapport with the author. Show him/her that you're an asset.
• Don't sugar coat things. Tell it as it is in a professional manner.
• Tell them the 'why' of your comments (simply writing "this is not appropriate" isn't enough).
• If an author says something is off the table, consider it off the table...unless you discover another aspect of the story affected by that item.
• Ask (and then address) for specific feedback the author is looking for (the author should really be doing this, but a professional beta reader would know to prompt the amatuer author if he failed to do so).

 

[BWFoster78]

In that case, I'd say the author needs to select better, more constructive beta readers.

If its someone whose vision you value & opinion you respect, would you consider their comments noise? I wouldn't. If I did they wouldn't be reading for me.

I disagree completely with the sentiment of this statement.

I haven't found any beta readers that are perfect. Each has strengths and weaknesses, as I do when I beta read. Even if I respect their opinion, it doesn't mean that they're not completely wrong in some areas and contribute to the noise level.

 

[BWFoster78]

This thread has derived into how the author absorbs the information from a beta reader. To get things back on track, here are some suggestions:

• Tell the author what books you like and appreciate. Go a bit further and rank the top ten series/stand alone novels so the author knows what you appreciate the most.
• Communicate with your author. Get feedback on your feedback.
• Build a rapport with the author. Show him/her that you're an asset.
• Don't sugar coat things. Tell it as it is in a professional manner.
• Tell them the 'why' of your comments (simply writing "this is not appropriate" isn't enough).
• If an author says something is off the table, consider it off the table...unless you discover another aspect of the story affected by that item.
• Ask (and then address) for specific feedback the author is looking for (the author should really be doing this, but a professional beta reader would know to prompt the amatuer author if he failed to do so).

Thanks. Good suggestions.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I disagree completely with the sentiment of this statement.

I haven't found any beta readers that are perfect. Each has strengths and weaknesses, as I do when I beta read. Even if I respect their opinion, it doesn't mean that they're not completely wrong in some areas and contribute to the noise level.

I never said perfect. I was responding to your comments about noise which, by the way I first took your comment, meant constant unhelpful comments that only drown out occasional good ideas or people that try to force your work into a certain direction over & over.

Yes, I agree that even the best readers will have opinions that aren't productive. We, as authors, are the filter for these unhelpful opinions.

 

[BWFoster78]

Yes, I agree that even the best readers will have opinions that aren't productive. We, as authors, are the filter for these unhelpful opinions.

Do you have any thoughts as to how we, as beta readers, can improve either how or what we transmit to authors to reduce the unhelpful opinions?

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I critique a lot in live groups but I've never truly been a beta for anyone so my experience is limited.

In critiques I prefer unadulterated honesty with an understanding that criticism is constructive. It's not as much a partnership as it is a service. The critics, in live scenarios I'm engaged in, provide service for each other. We nitpick details, everything than can be pointed out for correction or consideration. They tear mine apart, I rip theirs to shreds. We both benefit. Whomever shows up that week is who reads your work. It's not a process of selection.

In beta reading, I as an author, am looking for partners who can speak to me frankly about what they enjoy and what didn't work. These are people I've selected. Their selection may be based on many factors (people that read a ton, people in the industry, friends whom I consider highly intelligent & honest, etc). Overall, these people are selected because they all wish to see me succeed. They desire to be a part of my success. With critics, from the example above, the relationship is far more clinical.

So, as a beta reader, I'd only accept the role if I'm truly willing to help the author succeed beyond the "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" mentality. That is how I'd be a better beta, reserving that level of involvement for authors who want and deserve that partnership.

Just my thoughts on the questions. Yours may differ.

 

[BWFoster78]

I critique a lot in live groups but I've never truly been a beta for anyone so my experience is limited.

In critiques I prefer unadulterated honesty with an understanding that criticism is constructive. It's not as much a partnership as it is a service. The critics, in live scenarios I'm engaged in, provide service for each other. We nitpick details, everything than can be pointed out for correction or consideration. They tear mine apart, I rip theirs to shreds. We both benefit. Whomever shows up that week is who reads your work. It's not a process of selection.

In beta reading, I as an author, am looking for partners who can speak to me frankly about what they enjoy and what didn't work. These are people I've selected. Their selection may be based on many factors (people that read a ton, people in the industry, friends whom I consider highly intelligent & honest, etc). Overall, these people are selected because they all wish to see me succeed. They desire to be a part of my success. With critics, from the example above, the relationship is far more clinical.

So, as a beta reader, I'd only accept the role if I'm truly willing to help the author succeed beyond the "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" mentality. That is how I'd be a better beta, reserving that level of involvement for authors who want and deserve that partnership.

Just my thoughts on the questions. Yours may differ.

I've done beta reading and participated in live groups. I think that the fundamental difference in the mediums is the ability to have live give and take in the group setting. You don't have that as a beta reader. All you have is a static description of your thought in a brief comment.

I think that this difference leads to more potential for misunderstandings and time wasting all around.

 

[Addison]

I would have to say number 3. As in both 1 and 2. From what I understand a Beta reader is reading the story as a friend, faimly member or whoever but is reading the story through the mind set of both editor and first reader.
So in the editor filter the beta reader is helping the author to write the best story possible. Yet through the first-reader filter he/she is helping the reader be able to send the entire story to the extent they saw it in their imagination.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I've done beta reading and participated in live groups. I think that the fundamental difference in the mediums is the ability to have live give and take in the group setting. You don't have that as a beta reader. All you have is a static description of your thought in a brief comment.

I think that this difference leads to more potential for misunderstandings and time wasting all around.

An interesting concept.

With beta readers I've used (5 people) I've never perceived trouble with any disconnect resulting in misunderstandings. They read from cover to cover, taking notes along the way. I find that process incredibly helpful.

In the live critique groups (2 different groups with about 10 people in attendance weekly for both) we read 1500 word excerpts.

That's an excerpt under a microscope vs the work as a whole. Instant feedback in the live groups, as you mentioned above & reading the entire work as its intended to be presented (chapters at a time) in the latter. That, as well as personal investment in the authors success, are the fundamental differences in my opinion.

Who are you using as beta readers? Are they from the same live critique groups?

 

[BWFoster78]

Who are you using as beta readers? Are they from the same live critique groups?

One from the group was a reader for me, but not anymore. Otherwise, I try to use a variety. Some people from this board, some friends/family. Some of the friends have turned out to be more insightful and helpful than I ever would have thought. Once they finally understood that I wasn't going to be offended at criticism, a couple really came through with some great input.

I find that the beta readers offer much deeper input, on average, than the live group. Maybe it's the format we use with the author reading outloud; it doesn't leave a lot of time to delve deep into the material.

Also, like you said, it's different doing one to two thousand word versus an entire piece.