To Not or Not To?

[Androxine Vortex]

is there a difference between these two phrases? In a section of my text, it reads, "He approached the unaware guard cautiously, taking care not to alert him." Should I change it to say, "taking care to not alert him?"

 

[JonSnow]

leave it how it is

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

is there a difference between these two phrases? In a section of my text, it reads, "He approached the unaware guard cautiously, taking care not to alert him." Should I change it to say, "taking care to not alert him?"

My thought is that either way you choose from the two examples above, the sentence is redundant.

If you're cautiously approaching an unaware guard it's obviously because you don't want to alert them.

Also, I'd rather see you describe how someone "cautiously approaches" but that's your call.

 

[Androxine Vortex]

Why is it that every time I have a question BOTH of you answer it right after each other? Well it does seem I have a problem with redundancy and I have been reading articles on how better to avoid it so it's still a work in progress!

@T.Allen.Smith I'm not sure what you meant by that last sentence.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Why is it that every time I have a question BOTH of you answer it right after each other? Well it does seem I have a problem with redundancy and I have been reading articles on how better to avoid it so it's still a work in progress!

@T.Allen.Smith I'm not sure what you meant by that last sentence.

It's the same reason you'll never see Jon & I in the same place 8)....

What I mean by that last sentence is when you say "cautiously approaches" it's a weak description. Is the character tip-toeing? Maybe they're doing an army crawl? Or perhaps that character is lurking in the shadows, only taking step when he hears the crash of thunder. There's too many possibilities. It's also a tad telly. If you show me the movements of the approach I can deduce they're being cautious. It's better reader engagement, in my opinion, and it's crystal clear HOW they're doing it.

 

[Ankari]

I agree with T Allen Smith.

 

[Androxine Vortex]

It's the same reason you'll never see Jon & I in the same place 8)....

What I mean by that last sentence is when you say "cautiously approaches" it's a weak description. Is the character tip-toeing? Maybe they're doing an army crawl? Or perhaps that character is lurking in the shadows, only taking step when he hears the crash of thunder. There's too many possibilities. It's also a tad telly. If you show me the movements of the approach I can deduce they're being cautious. It's better reader engagement, in my opinion, and it's crystal clear HOW they're doing it.

Oh well he is just kind of crouching down and slowly advancing towards the guard.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Oh well he is just kind of crouching down and slowly advancing towards the guard.

Okay, so if that's what the character is doing, why not just show him doing exactly that? Let me empathize with the character because I understand his legs are cramping from being crouched for so long. Let me understand that he's nervous that the guard will hear his breathing because his adrenaline is amped.

Those examples are just that, examples. But I hope you catch my drift. Let me experience the action. Doing it this way should also solve your problem.

 

[Androxine Vortex]

Okay, so if that's what the character is doing, why not just show him doing exactly that? Let me empathize with the character because I understand his legs are cramping from being crouched for so long. Let me understand that he's nervous that the guard will hear his breathing because his adrenaline is amped.

Those examples are just that, examples. But I hope you catch my drift. Let me experience the action. Doing it this way should also solve your problem.

Thanks! I will keep that in mind. I love how this thread has derived from its original point as well XD

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Yeah. Apologies for the minor derail. Just trying to help.

 

[Androxine Vortex]

Yeah. Apologies for the minor derail. Just trying to help.

No, I really appreciate the help! I don't mind if my threads derail as long as I get what I needed out of it than I'm fine

 

[Kit]

This is a MASSIVE pet peeve of mine. I can't take an oath on what an English teacher would say, but I know that most people say/write "taking care not to alert him"- I always say "taking care to not alert him" because the first option makes no logical sense to me and seems sloppy.

You're "taking care to....." Dandy. I get where this is going, you're going to tell me what you are taking care to do. "Taking care not.....?" Now I'm confused; where is this going, are you taking care or are you not taking care?

The sentence frag contradicts itself.

 

[JonSnow]

Yeah, I think I've torn apart Androxine's writing enough in the last couple days. I thought I'd keep my answer simple, that "taking care not to alert him" sounded better than the alternative.

 

[JonSnow]

This is a MASSIVE pet peeve of mine. I can't take an oath on what an English teacher would say, but I know that most people say/write "taking care not to alert him"- I always say "taking care to not alert him" because the first option makes no logical sense to me and seems sloppy.

You're "taking care to....." Dandy. I get where this is going, you're going to tell me what you are taking care to do. "Taking care not.....?" Now I'm confused; where is this going, are you taking care or are you not taking care?

The sentence frag contradicts itself.

As a writer, its not always best to listen to the english teacher What is grammatically correct and what sounds better to read aren't always the same thing. Besides, part of the fun in writing is taking liberties with the laws of grammar...within reason, of course.

 

[Kit]

Well, I think it's fine to toss out rules of grammar for character speech- lots of people do not speak with correct grammar, so that's just character and realism. But I think we should all strive to use English-teacher-correct grammar elsewhere in our stories. I'm fairly good at English/spelling, and it jars me out of the story whenever I come across errors in English. If there are a lot of them in a piece, it gets irritating. I have quit reading stuff sometimes because of this.

 

[Steerpike]

"To not alert" is a split infinitive, I believe. It also doesn't sound right to me. I'd go with "not to alert."

 

[Devor]

Split infinitives are sometimes okay - but this is one of those instances for which they made it a rule. It sounds weird.

 

[Steerpike]

Yes. I am alll for playing around with grammar for stylistic reasons, but in this case "to not alert" would make me think the writer didn't know the proper structure rather than that he was playing around with the rules. Ultimately the writer makes the call but I'm not sure what is gained by the other approach.

 

[JCFarnham]

Was just about to mention the split infinitive... though that point has become muddied in contemporary English, so really you don't need to worry about anyone other than fellow writers




It's still important though haha

 

[Steerpike]

JC, that is a good point. I think in this case the non-writer or non-grammarian would know something wasn't right, but perhaps not exactly why.