A quick question about the em dash.

[Giant]

I was wondering which of these is better to use, or more acceptable.

"Jim...I am dying...please help."

or

"Jim—I am dying—please help."

I normally use the ... as a pause and the — as an interruption. Thanks in advance.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

I'd use ellipses for that. Ellipses usually imply a trailing off, or an inability to speak with consistent strength.

Well, if the idea is that the speaker (let's call him Bob) is unable to get out more than a couple of words at a time, then ellipses. There are certain contexts where em dashes would make sense, e.g. Bob has terminal cancer but it isn't affecting his ability to speak.

 

[Devor]

To me, a dash is a pause and the elipses is the trailing off. There's some exception to that, like when a person "trails off" to interrupt themselves it's a dash.

You have to be careful, though, because you can overuse them too easily, and I think that gives people a bad impression of your dialogue. I often include lines of narration in the middle of dialogue to suggest a pause. In your case, since there would already be a pause after "Jim," I would just use a comma there. The "depth" of the pause should be clear enough from the context, I would hope.

"Jim, I am dying . . . please help."

Or even:

"Jim, I am dying - please . . . help."

 

[Aegrus]

"Jim. . . I am dying. Please, help."

"Jim, I am dying. Please. . . help."

Those might be other ways to write it, but I'm not sure.
But yes, I'd go with elipses. Just be very careful not to overuse them.

 

[Giant]

Thanks for all the input.

 

[Telcontar]

Though it is used often, I believe that it is technically incorrect to use an ellipsis for a pause. I do it as well, but I'm trying to expunge this from my writing.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Though it is used often, I believe that it is technically incorrect to use an ellipsis for a pause. I do it as well, but I'm trying to expunge this from my writing.

Technically according to who? Remember, it's all defined by usage. I wouldn't ever have a problem while reading such, and I don't suspect most people would either, so I'm not sure if it's actually a problem to do this.

Although... sometimes... it can... be overused...

But once in a while... I don't think it's a problem. ;-)

 

[Xanados]

I noticed while looking through The Eye of the World that Jordan uses 4 dots in an ellipsis. Is there a reason for that?

 

[Devor]

I noticed while looking through The Eye of the World that Jordan uses 4 dots in an ellipsis. Is there a reason for that?

Typically, the fourth dot represents a period and closes a sentence. Sometimes extra dots are just used when for whatever reason you can't include a non-breakable space between them, such as an internet forum, but I haven't seen much of that in a while. I think they're moving away from the spaces between dots and moving towards "...", although I still prefer ". . .".

The punctuation at the end of that sentence makes me chuckle.

 

[Telcontar]

Technically according to who? Remember, it's all defined by usage.

Certainly, and the ellipsis pause is gaining enough use that no doubt it well eventually be perfectly acceptable even for standard English. However, I think writer's should know the rules before we break them. I still use the ellipsis every now and then even though I'm leaning away from it as much as possible, but I also know the 'technical' uses of it.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Certainly, and the ellipsis pause is gaining enough use that no doubt it well eventually be perfectly acceptable even for standard English. However, I think writer's should know the rules before we break them. I still use the ellipsis every now and then even though I'm leaning away from it as much as possible, but I also know the 'technical' uses of it.

But, again, the rules according to whom? There is no central defining authority over what constitutes English. If you just mean "the most common usage," I'd already argue that the ellipsis pause is already used and accepted by a majority of readers and writers.

 

[Telcontar]

But, again, the rules according to whom?

Most clearly in my memory is my high school English teacher, Mrs. Metzger. She was quite adamant on the subject. My college English profs (don't remember either one's name, sadly) agreed. I can only assume that their opinions were informed by some sort of authority - various manuals of style or academic grammar journals. Haven't got a clue.

Perhaps I was taught by some of the old guard - it's entirely possible that this is accepted now. However, in my opinion the majority of professional editors would think it informal and a sign of less mature writing.

Though to bring the topic back from where I derailed it to, I wouldn't use either of

"Jim...I am dying...please help."

or

"Jim—I am dying—please help."

Both look bad to me. I'd break up the dialogue itself in something like the following:

"Jim," he rasped. "I am dying--please help."

 

[Giant]

In my scene I have a character who is dying, but has some dialogue with another character while he is dying. So I am trying to balance the ellipses, em dashes, and commas in his speech, but not kill the pacing of the scene.

 

[Ghost]

My solution is to make them die faster.

 

[SeverinR]

This sight was how I learned which to use:

The Blood-Red Pencil: Dialogue Interruptus

interupted speech= em dash (alt+0150)
trailing off, unfinished= ...(elipses, for those that didn't know what these are called)

 

[BWFoster78]

I just spent a half hour reading about ellipses on the internet, and I'm more confused than when I started. Here's my understanding:

If you trail off at the end of a sentence, you use a fourth dot to indicate the period. Example:

I'm trailing off....

If you omit words in the middle of a sentence, you use three dots (don't even get me started on when to use spaces):

Instead of going into everything, I'm just going to use three dots.

Becomes:

Instead...I'm just going to use three dots.

What do you do if the trail off isn't for a complete sentence? For example:

Wait. I don't want you to...

Do you use three dots or four?

 

[Ireth]

I've never used four dots even for the end of a sentence; it just doesn't look right to me. Three is fine.

 

[BWFoster78]

I've never used four dots even for the end of a sentence; it just doesn't look right to me. Three is fine.

I prefer, in most cases, to follow the "correct" punctuation as defined by style guides. I'm not much for "it just doesn't look right" when it comes to grammar.

 

[PaulineMRoss]

I prefer, in most cases, to follow the "correct" punctuation as defined by style guides. I'm not much for "it just doesn't look right" when it comes to grammar.

In my case I suspect "it just doesn't look right" translates to "I was taught this umpteen years ago and it's been absorbed into my subconscious". Generally when I look something up, my instinct was correct. Or correct for me, anyway. What constitutes "correct" punctuation or spelling or grammar varies with time and place.

I love that you guys are agonising over a single dot Such attention to detail! And your readers will never, ever notice.

 

[BWFoster78]

I love that you guys are agonising over a single dot Such attention to detail! And your readers will never, ever notice.

The vast majority of readers won't, but, as most people on this site advise, you should write for yourself. And I most certainly do notice.

At any given point in time, there generally is consensus on the correct way to punctuate and use grammar. Admittedly, usage does change, but I think I have a responsibility to be as correct as I can.