Magic, genetics, and celibacy

[Devouring Wolf]

Originally I had a magic system where anyone could technically do magic, but the rich and powerful hoarded the knowledge. However, I realized for this particular story, the magic would make more sense if it was an inborn trait rather than inborn skill, but since I've never liked "random" magic systems (I always want to know why some people can do magic while others cannot).

In order to explain why the overwhelming majority of magic users are male, I made the ability to use magic a recessive trait located on the X chromosome, therefore men need only inherit one copy of it to have magic abilities, while women need two. Of course this isn't an explanation I'm going to reveal in the story, since its set in a medieval period where people don't really know about genetics, but it gives the rules to inheriting magic consistency (barring the occasional spontaneous mutation of course)

My problem is this whether or not it ought to be socially acceptable for magic users to have harems?

When it was a skill based system I had the magic users, as part of the church take vows of celibacy which makes a lot of sense, since there's a strong precedent for asceticism within the church, and one of the side affects of using magic is that it causes sterility over time so the prospect of magicians having children, is not particularly high in the first place and since magic is a recessive trait, and might skip a generation or more before reappearing, its entirely possible that people wouldn't consider magic use hereditary, and thus there would be no reason for some members of the church to have sanctioned harems (the key word here is sanctioned. Most of the magicians don't take their vows too seriously)

However, its also not unreasonable to assume that the bloodlines of people with magic would be of great interest and traced closely and that someone would come to the conclusion that having a magical ancestor increases the likelihood of someone having the gift (rather than having magic be the result of superstition such as being demon-touched), then as the last line of defense between humans and the impending apocalypse, magic users have a sacred duty to breed as many as possible.

This is a pretty important question since it helps shape the role of magic users in society. Either they're members of the church who are expected to set a good example as the defenders of mankind and forsake earthly pleasures, or they're taught that because they can use magic the rules do not apply to them. I'm not really sure which option I like better, so I thought I'd post here to let you guys weigh-in.

 

[Unglitteringold]

"My problem is this whether or not it ought to be socially acceptable for magic users to have harems?" That's not such a bad problem to have
Okay, so I dig the idea of a recessive trait for magic users. The key term here is "socially acceptable."
Let's look at a silly example: Waterworld. Man has gills. People freak out. I'm sorry, but in a world covered with water, that gill man should be breeding with every woman he meets to preserve the species. However, the society rejects the abnormal.
A more serious example: Harem in our real world are reflections of power, but in The Forbidden City the emperor of China wasn't actually supposed to knock up the chicks of his harem. Harems weren't for making babies as much as they were for displaying wealth (look at all the bitches I can afford to keep). Too many children, however, could, and often did, result in a power struggle later on.
The question is, in your setting, is the purpose of a harem for breeding? How does that affect inheritance? Is there religious baggage to go with it?
In the medieval era, we also have a church that is not into sharing power - it might be in the church's interest to force celibacy
in an effort to maintain control over the, arguably, more powerful magic users.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Couple of questions occur to me. First why are those with magic necessarily part of a faith? Because it seems to me most would not be unless there was some huge advantage to them, especially when it comes with celibacy.

Second, if they don't breed and the trait isn't passed on, where do the next generations of magic users come from? Seems like every generation you'd have fewer and fewer magic users.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Devor]

In order to explain why the overwhelming majority of magic users are male, I made the ability to use magic a recessive trait located on the X chromosome, therefore men need only inherit one copy of it to have magic abilities, while women need two. Of course this isn't an explanation I'm going to reveal in the story, since its set in a medieval period where people don't really know about genetics, but it gives the rules to inheriting magic consistency (barring the occasional spontaneous mutation of course)

This kind of plays into some misconceptions about genetics. Typically, a recessive gene is one that doesn't produce the desired trait. It's more of a broken gene. That's why you need both genes to be recessive for the recessive trait to emerge; if one of the genes is working right, they produce an enzyme that gives you the trait.

To look at this from the perspective of inheriting magic, what you would actually have on your X-chromosome is a gene that for whatever reason suppresses the magic in your body, kind of the way that we have hormones that limit the production of other hormones.

So to have magic, you would need to have 1) Only recessive genes in the magic suppressant, as well as 2) Separate dominant genes that create the capability for magic. If you do the statistics, this puts you closer to the small percentage of people being wizards that's typical in most settings (as opposed to only having it be a recessive gene, which at a random distribution would make 1-in-4 people a wizard).

Sorry if I'm rambly or lecturey. This came up in a Harry Potter discussion somewhere one time.

My problem is this whether or not it ought to be socially acceptable for magic users to have harems?

When it was a skill based system I had the magic users, as part of the church take vows of celibacy which makes a lot of sense, since there's a strong precedent for asceticism within the church, and one of the side affects of using magic is that it causes sterility over time so the prospect of magicians having children, is not particularly high in the first place and since magic is a recessive trait, and might skip a generation or more before reappearing, its entirely possible that people wouldn't consider magic use hereditary, and thus there would be no reason for some members of the church to have sanctioned harems (the key word here is sanctioned. Most of the magicians don't take their vows too seriously)

However, its also not unreasonable to assume that the bloodlines of people with magic would be of great interest and traced closely and that someone would come to the conclusion that having a magical ancestor increases the likelihood of someone having the gift (rather than having magic be the result of superstition such as being demon-touched), then as the last line of defense between humans and the impending apocalypse, magic users have a sacred duty to breed as many as possible.

This is a pretty important question since it helps shape the role of magic users in society. Either they're members of the church who are expected to set a good example as the defenders of mankind and forsake earthly pleasures, or they're taught that because they can use magic the rules do not apply to them. I'm not really sure which option I like better, so I thought I'd post here to let you guys weigh-in.

I think, before genetics, people were more likely to assume that things were hereditary even when there was no evidence and they weren't. I can't imagine that anybody would believe that magic wasn't hereditary, especially in a setting where it actually is.

You can have your wizards be celibate. You can have them have harems. And whatever you want to do is probably fine. But if you managed to have all of this come across in the text, that nobody believes magic is hereditary even though it clearly is, I would find that very jarring and consider it a plot hole. But that's just me.

 

[Devouring Wolf]

Couple of questions occur to me. First why are those with magic necessarily part of a faith? Because it seems to me most would not be unless there was some huge advantage to them, especially when it comes with celibacy.

Second, if they don't breed and the trait isn't passed on, where do the next generations of magic users come from? Seems like every generation you'd have fewer and fewer magic users.

In their religion, the gods are dead and the being that killed them is going to return to cause the apocalypse and the only thing standing in its way are the magic users. The primary function of the faith is to train magic in order to defend humanity. To be a magic user and not be a member of the faith is seen as shirking one's duty to protect humanity and punishable by death.

As to how they would continue to breed, because humanity's existence pretty much depends on them, many magic users are pampered to the point of becoming pampered pricks. Just because they take vows of celibacy, doesn't mean they're going to keep them. Although it is entirely possible that the number magic users diminishes each generation.

Its really more of an issue of whether breeding is seen as an expected duty or whether magic users are breaking their vows and the church is turning a blind eye to their actions.

The question is, in your setting, is the purpose of a harem for breeding? How does that affect inheritance? Is there religious baggage to go with it?
In the medieval era, we also have a church that is not into sharing power - it might be in the church's interest to force celibacy
in an effort to maintain control over the, arguably, more powerful magic users.

The purpose of the harem would be specifically for breeding. Although I can see powerful people with too many daughters offering them to the church in order to curry favor so it could work as a way of forging alliances with the church. Since all magic users are part of the church and joining requires a renunciation of all former titles and lands, inheritance wouldn't really be an issue. The children, magic or not, would be property of the church. Magic users would be forbidden from having close ties with their children, as having a family would distract them from their religious duties. The children would then grow up essentially as orphans raised by the church until they are old enough to decide whether they want to join permanently or not.

 

[Devouring Wolf]

This kind of plays into some misconceptions about genetics. Typically, a recessive gene is one that doesn't produce the desired trait. It's more of a broken gene. That's why you need both genes to be recessive for the recessive trait to emerge; if one of the genes is working right, they produce an enzyme that gives you the trait.

To look at this from the perspective of inheriting magic, what you would actually have on your X-chromosome is a gene that for whatever reason suppresses the magic in your body, kind of the way that we have hormones that limit the production of other hormones.

So to have magic, you would need to have 1) Only recessive genes in the magic suppressant, as well as 2) Separate dominant genes that create the capability for magic. If you do the statistics, this puts you closer to the small percentage of people being wizards that's typical in most settings (as opposed to only having it be a recessive gene, which at a random distribution would make 1-in-4 people a wizard).

Sorry if I'm rambly or lecturey. This came up in a Harry Potter discussion somewhere one time.

While recessive traits are commonly "broken" genes, this doesn't make it impossible for me to have x-linked recessive magic, if rather than having an allele which codes for magic, having magic abilities is an "unintentional" effect of a gene that's meant that's related to either fertility or mental health (since magic users are often infertile and/or mentally unstable).

I should also make clear that they wouldn't be producing magic, so to speak. They're genetics would just give them the ability an ability to sense, and therefore manipulate the threads of magic woven into the universe so they could lack a gene that creates a barrier between them and the source of magic.

Though I could still not work the way I want. I'm not claiming to be an expert on genetics.

 

[ThinkerX]

Magic is mostly hereditary in my worlds. Chase the family trees back far enough - near impossible given the time spans, migrations, and random affairs - and most mages stem from a few dozen common ancestors. The near mythical 'families of magic.' The rest...well things happen. Arcane abilities can come about through near death experiences, imbedding rare (and often fatal) drugs, or just spending a great deal of time hanging out in a potent magical local.

That said, the magical talent doesn't always run true from generation to generation. Sometimes it can skip a generation or five.

But this is secondary at best to the stories. So and so had a grandmother who was a witch, or claimed descent from a priestly family, or some such. Beyond that, story wise, not worth bothering with.

 

[HellionHeloise]

When you consider the history of many religions, especially during the middle ages, often clergymen were prone to forsaking their vows of celibacy. It was looked down upon, but even some of the highest ranking clergymen and priests were having illicit affairs or just sex with prostitiutes. Thus, I would not consider a harem a problem necessarily, but I think it would have to be more nuanced than just thought of as "socially acceptable" or "socially unacceptable."

Within the inner-circle of magic users, harems could be something people tried to avoid talking about, but allowed to exist because as long as you could ensure that most of the magic users did not reproduce with these women, then the general populace wouldn't be any the wiser. I think it all comes down to how exclusive & secretive these magic users are who participate in the religion. It would be like a poorly-kept dirty secret in society that some magic users have harems even though they've taken vows of celibacy. It could also become a point of contention between the straight and narrow magic users and the more care-free magic users, but that could be an interesting plot device.

If the women in the harem are used strictly for breeding, then I think your definition of "celibacy" within your world could be changed. Maybe celibacy just means no sex without the intent of reproducing?

I hope this helps. It sounds like an interesting concept!