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Getting that first book published

skip.knox

skip.knox

Staff
Moderator
I wish I could hit the Thanks button more than once. This is a great article and *everyone* should read it. Seriously.

I would add that it's coming from Amazing so of course it's all about publishing in the traditional sense. Self-pub is an entirely different career, one that I've pursued myself. That said, there's no harm in knowing there's a second road to one's destination, and the above article is filled with pertinent advice.
 
T

ThinkerX

Valar Lord
Hmm...

The 'useless at best' quote from Gibson sort of stands out.

Getting hammered with the editor/publisher doesn't exactly seem viable anymore (though it might account for a few recent novels I have wondered about).

'Paying your dues' by writing and submitting short stories is something I have heard repeatedly. Not really news. I have written a pile of short stories (though none this year, which is odd) that I intend to submit to the digital pulps.

I do note the article focus's exclusively on the major publishing houses. Nothing about small press outfits. Makes me wonder.

And the 'follow the submission guidelines' bit...well, that's kind of self evident.
 
X Equestris

X Equestris

Scribal Lord
ThinkerX said:
And the 'follow the submission guidelines' bit...well, that's kind of self evident.
Click to expand...

You would think, but some people are seemingly incapable of following basic directions. Just like there are people out there who can't seem to understand the most basic of grammar rules or spell correctly.
 
cupiscent

cupiscent

Mystagogue
That article is a great collation of advice, and I'm particularly underlining (mentally: my husband gets upset when I underline things on the screen) William Gibson's point about how getting-published advice from anyone who got published less than about five years ago is already out of date.

Also good, if you can manage it, is the advice about spending time in a major bookstore to research who's publishing what (and getting distributed where). If you want to end up in a major bookstore, that seems absolutely invaluable advice. (I say "if you can manage it" because I'm in Australia, but aiming for the international market, so my ability to first-hand scope the market is limited. We barely get any Baen books distributed here, for instance, unless they are also published in the UK.)

I second the motion about "following the submission guidelines" not apparently being self-evident, from stories told by agents and publishers. Though it does provide an easy way to put yourself one up on the great unwashed non-followers.
 
Russ

Russ

Dark Lord
The best place to get advice on getting published is from agents and editors, the people most involved in the purchasing process. Writer's success stories can provide examples, but vary in quality.

Some writers are great to get advice on how and where to get published because they are really into the business of writing and some of them spend tons of time with editors and other decision makers in the publishing world. Others, simply write very well and let their agents do all the work. So if you want advice on how to get published from a writer, you need to be selective about which writers you seek it from. However I expect those writers who don't really follow the modern business end don't talk about it that much.
 
TWErvin2

TWErvin2

Dark Lord
I can say from my experience attending writers' conventions and fantasy/SF cons where I participated on panels with, and had time to informally talk with some pretty big name authors and editors at a couple of the fantasy/SF publishers mentioned in the article, that convincing an editor or author to take a look at your work and give an opinion isn't very likely to happen. They, like in the article mentioned, will admit that they're not up to date on current trends on obtaining and agent and such. They got their first agent and started their career when you still printed, boxed up and mailed manuscripts. Often, at big events, the authors use it as an opportunity to meet with their editor(s) and network with other authors and publishers and such.

Some writer events have pitch sessions that would cover this getting your work (and ten minutes with someone eye to eye instead of being one in the email queue of 50 or 100 a day) in front of an agent or editor.

There are times when agents say after a presentation, "Send me the query and remind me that you attended such and such panel at such and such writers' conference, and it'll get bumped up for faster consideration." But authors and especially editors have far, far more work in front of them, reading and writing/editing---they don't have time for stuff on the side, especially authors. Editors and agents, it's sort of their job to keep their eyes and ears open for something potentially good.

I sat next to one author at a book fair who is published with Del Rey. He took courses under Brandon Sanderson (if I accurately recall) and even retook the course, to learn more. He got noticed and a good word from the author to his (the author's) agent opened doors. So there are creative ways. So traveling to conventions, meeting authors and editors and agents, and building a relationship, an acquaintanceship over a few times might help.

Maybe long term, thoughtful and interesting participation on an author's or editors blog or FB page might provide an opportunity. Just speculating here.

Participating on panels or asking astute questions when attending panels and following up after a panel or presentation could work. I can say from personal experience and through observation, that authors who attend the same convention for several years do build up a following of sorts. Readers who enjoyed their work tend to return, and strike up conversations, sort of where they left off. An author who has a reader/fan that has bought and read their works...well, they're going to be better disposed to giving advice and maybe a look at a few pages emailed to them after the convention, than someone cold coming up and striking up a conversation, followed by a request.

Small-time of an author as I am (and I should stress that), I've had writers approach me out of the blue at events with CDs containing their manuscript, asking if I'd read and crit it, and forward it to my publisher if I like it...or just send it to my publisher for them. I had one telling me of eleven novels on the CD, and I could pick the one I liked best to read if I wanted to and tell my publisher about it.

Another true story. I was once at a writers conference where a Tor editor was using the restroom (he was standing at the urinal), and a writer was trying to pitch to the editor and hand off this first three chapters. Really? Yes. And how would that work out. The editor declined, politely. But even if he'd have taken it...after finishing and washing his hands and such, how would it have worked out for the writer? The author said he didn't have the extra twenty dollars to sign up for the pitch session and such, but that his friends and writers' group think it's really great and will be a best seller if someone would look at it and give it a chance. The editor said that the website for Tor has guidelines and to follow them for submitting an unsolicited manuscript.

I sort of felt bad for the editor. I had a chance to chat with him, sitting in the lounge between sessions, and talked about his living in New Jersey and traveling to NY's office, and reading during his ride and such. He also laughed and said that wasn't the first time he'd been approached by an author in the restroom.
 
BWFoster78

BWFoster78

Mythic Scribe
or just send it to my publisher for them. I had one telling me of eleven novels on the CD, and I could pick the one I liked best to read if I wanted to and tell my publisher about it.
Click to expand...

You can do that? Sweet. What was your email address again?
 
Russ

Russ

Dark Lord
TWErvin2 said:
Some writer events have pitch sessions that would cover this getting your work (and ten minutes with someone eye to eye instead of being one in the email queue of 50 or 100 a day) in front of an agent or editor.

There are times when agents say after a presentation, "Send me the query and remind me that you attended such and such panel at such and such writers' conference, and it'll get bumped up for faster consideration." But authors and especially editors have far, far more work in front of them, reading and writing/editing---they don't have time for stuff on the side, especially authors. Editors and agents, it's sort of their job to keep their eyes and ears open for something potentially good.
Click to expand...

I would sound a note of caution here. For many agents and editors and at many events it is considered basic manners to request a partial after a organized pitch unless the idea is completely misplaced.
 
TWErvin2

TWErvin2

Dark Lord
Russ said:
I would sound a note of caution here. For many agents and editors and at many events it is considered basic manners to request a partial after a organized pitch unless the idea is completely misplaced.
Click to expand...

A presentation (or talk) by the agent is different than a pitch session. This is often to a group. I probably wasn't clear on that.

And often an agent, if they're not interested, won't tell people to send them something. The pitch session offers immediate feedback to the writer with the face to face time. A face to face, "This project isn't something for me, and this is why" is common with writers I know who've done pitch sessions, as well as ones where they say, "You've got my interest, please send..." I've also heard once, "This isn't for me, but contact _______ and mention I directed you to them."

Is it common courtesy to ask someone to take the time to organize and format and send you chapters that you have no intention of reading? That may mean the idea is completely misplaced. Or the story is really not good at all, or not of any interest/deemed potential to the agent/editor being pitched to. My experience isn't extensive, so the polite "Send me the first three chapters" request by the agent, knowing that they're going to reply with a rejection at first opportunity, knowing that this project isn't for them may occur more often than not.

The other thing about a person-to-person pitch is that the writer gets to meet the agent/editor they would potentially be working with. And the agent/editor gets to meet the writer they'd potentially be working with.
 
Russ

Russ

Dark Lord
TWErvin2 said:
A presentation (or talk) by the agent is different than a pitch session. This is often to a group. I probably wasn't clear on that.

And often an agent, if they're not interested, won't tell people to send them something. The pitch session offers immediate feedback to the writer with the face to face time. A face to face, "This project isn't something for me, and this is why" is common with writers I know who've done pitch sessions, as well as ones where they say, "You've got my interest, please send..." I've also heard once, "This isn't for me, but contact _______ and mention I directed you to them."

Is it common courtesy to ask someone to take the time to organize and format and send you chapters that you have no intention of reading? That may mean the idea is completely misplaced. Or the story is really not good at all, or not of any interest/deemed potential to the agent/editor being pitched to. My experience isn't extensive, so the polite "Send me the first three chapters" request by the agent, knowing that they're going to reply with a rejection at first opportunity, knowing that this project isn't for them may occur more often than not.

The other thing about a person-to-person pitch is that the writer gets to meet the agent/editor they would potentially be working with. And the agent/editor gets to meet the writer they'd potentially be working with.
Click to expand...

I agree that going to organized pitch sessions is a great idea and can really help aspiring writers, especially if you go to say a conference that will teach you how to pitch with top authors before the pitch session...

...but I just want to caution people that getting asked for that partial may just be good manners on the part of the agent or editor.
 
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