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Random thoughts

DragonOfTheAerie

DragonOfTheAerie

Istari
ThinkerX said:
I did give this a fair bit of thought because it did bother me (along with most of my fantasy world civilizations being roughly parallel to others here on earth).

My solution:

The fantasy world, many tens of thousands of years ago, was a near lifeless rock in another solar system - possibly another universe, which opens up weird cans filled with extra dimensional entities. Said near lifeless rock was terraformed by alien races about the time Cro-Magnon man appeared on earth. Once terraformed, said aliens began stocking said planet with lifeforms from elsewhere, including earth. First humans were imported something on the order of 6000 years ago, and other groups were transported via starship and portal every few centuries until about 1500 years ago, when the alien civilizations collapsed. The humans were mostly workers and experimental subjects (some of these experimental subjects were genetically given psionic ability, making them 'wizards,' while others became possessed by strange spiritual entities, and became elves.)

Anymore, the overwhelming majority of the aliens are long gone, though there is abundant interesting rubble to sort through in certain places.
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My problem is that I can't figure out a solution without going into the need for sci-fi technology that my world doesn't have, or else having to change a lot about the story. I had several ideas:

-humans were created by the dominating race to be slaves from genetic information from the various races (didn't eliminate their rebellious, freedom-craving temperaments though, I guess...)

-humans were the evolutionary ancestor of the races (this could take a post-apocalyptic direction, which isn't that plausible...but, why do they still exist in the same form? Also it doesn't make sense at all.)

-the fantasy races were artificially created using genetic information from other sources, originally humans were the only race.

-there are no humans (my human characters would need to be changed to nonhuman)

-there are no nonhuman races (my nonhuman characters would need to be changed to human)

None seem favorable...
 
FifthView

FifthView

Dark Lord
DragonOfTheAerie said:
Haha! Muke, though? Like puke with an M? What kind of character would that be for? (Sorry that's just what it made me think of...)
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It sounded good for the sidekick/servant of the villain--maybe. Or some future street urchin. But I was checking about fifty, sixty names, for various characters and for a pool of names for incidental characters that might come up later.
 
T

ThinkerX

Valar Lord
DragonOfTheAerie said:
My problem is that I can't figure out a solution without going into the need for sci-fi technology that my world doesn't have, or else having to change a lot about the story. I had several ideas:

-humans were created by the dominating race to be slaves from genetic information from the various races (didn't eliminate their rebellious, freedom-craving temperaments though, I guess...)

-humans were the evolutionary ancestor of the races (this could take a post-apocalyptic direction, which isn't that plausible...but, why do they still exist in the same form? Also it doesn't make sense at all.)

-the fantasy races were artificially created using genetic information from other sources, originally humans were the only race.

-there are no humans (my human characters would need to be changed to nonhuman)

-there are no nonhuman races (my nonhuman characters would need to be changed to human)

None seem favorable...
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My fantasy worlds are far from high tech, though that is starting to change in places. The super advanced alien tech does exist in places, but it's mostly broken or functions poorly at best. And the time of alien dominance is effectively a myth for most people.

I also very deliberately chose aliens that are ALIEN. They are not remotely humanoid. They do not think like humans, period. (Though their motivations for terraforming the fantasy planets and importing other lifeforms are superficially graspable.)

There used to be quite a few stories like that, or at least had backgrounds like that. The one that leaps to mind is Butcher's 'Codex Aleria.'

Something similar might work for your world: an outside force, for inscrutable reasons of its own, imported life of all sorts to a given world, including humans and others. Some races it tweaked, others it left untouched. Perhaps there was more than one 'outside force.' That force is now spent, little more than myth, as are its motivations. Consider that whole episode a mystery to be explored in a future tale.
 
DragonOfTheAerie

DragonOfTheAerie

Istari
ThinkerX said:
My fantasy worlds are far from high tech, though that is starting to change in places. The super advanced alien tech does exist in places, but it's mostly broken or functions poorly at best. And the time of alien dominance is effectively a myth for most people.

I also very deliberately chose aliens that are ALIEN. They are not remotely humanoid. They do not think like humans, period. (Though their motivations for terraforming the fantasy planets and importing other lifeforms are superficially graspable.)

There used to be quite a few stories like that, or at least had backgrounds like that. The one that leaps to mind is Butcher's 'Codex Aleria.'

Something similar might work for your world: an outside force, for inscrutable reasons of its own, imported life of all sorts to a given world, including humans and others. Some races it tweaked, others it left untouched. Perhaps there was more than one 'outside force.' That force is now spent, little more than myth, as are its motivations. Consider that whole episode a mystery to be explored in a future tale.
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The frustrating thing is that the origins of the races have very little relevance to the story. Except, perhaps, that the humans are enslaved at the start of the story, while the races are almost wiped out. Why enslave only the humans?

I'm trying to come up with reasons for these things without drastically changing the story.

I'm leaning toward the idea that originally there were only humans, but the races changed themselves (or evolved naturally, or a combination of both) then the humans were somehow returned to their original state. No idea how, or why, though.
 
FifthView

FifthView

Dark Lord
DragonOfTheAerie said:
I'm leaning toward the idea that originally there were only humans, but the races changed themselves (or evolved naturally, or a combination of both) then the humans were somehow returned to their original state. No idea how, or why, though.
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Branching evolution/change. A population of humans in X location mutated/evolved, but those in Y location did not.

Scientists on our world now suspect that many pre-human hominids evolved in Africa this way, then mated with one another from time to time, which led to more variation but also sharing of various traits. So a population of one type of hominid in northern Africa, or some individuals from that population, might have mated with members of a different hominid species in eastern Africa, and so forth. (Although perhaps "species" may not be the right word. Sub-species?) This may have occurred many times before humans ever appeared.

I've been a little confused about your society of winged humans, because some of your descriptions make them sound fairly advanced, with some rudimentary science, but in other descriptions they seem less advanced. So maybe they don't know about genetics, per se, but they do know about breeding. (They may assign special significance to "blood," for instance, rather than genetics.) So you wouldn't necessarily have to introduce the idea of evolution. Think about the way the orcs and Uruk-hai were created in LOTR. You could use the ideas of corruption, magic, simply "bad breeding over many generations," or something similar to explain the variations.
 
DragonOfTheAerie

DragonOfTheAerie

Istari
FifthView said:
I've been a little confused about your society of winged humans, because some of your descriptions make them sound fairly advanced, with some rudimentary science, but in other descriptions they seem less advanced. So maybe they don't know about genetics, per se, but they do know about breeding. (They may assign special significance to "blood," for instance, rather than genetics.) So you wouldn't necessarily have to introduce the idea of evolution. Think about the way the orcs and Uruk-hai were created in LOTR. You could use the ideas of corruption, magic, simply "bad breeding over many generations," or something similar to explain the variations.
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They understand heredity, that some traits are dominant and others recessive, that like begets like (similar to what Gregor Mendel observed). They don't understand what causes it.

Their society progressed differently than ours. They are fairly advanced in medicine, but some technologies they never developed because they have alternatives. For example, they don't need electric lightning because they use bioluminescent organisms for light.

Keeping their cities in the air would require rather advanced technology, though. I'm not entirely sure how they keep their cities in the air, or if it will even require much explanation.

But, they could have knowledge of evolution. Discoveries could have occurred much earlier. History would be different.
 
S

SaltyDog

Mystagogue
I really don't like unsatisfactory endings in great series. Really, Really don't. AND that is exactly what the author of a series I was reading did. Argh. Don't get me wrong, it was brilliant, just not the way I wanted it to end.
 
Ireth

Ireth

Mythic Scribe
SaltyDog said:
I really don't like unsatisfactory endings in great series. Really, Really don't. AND that is exactly what the author of a series I was reading did. Argh. Don't get me wrong, it was brilliant, just not the way I wanted it to end.
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Which series?
 
S

SaltyDog

Mystagogue
Chronicle of the Unhewn Throne trilogy, Brian Stavely. It was a fantastic read, and I probably should of expected the ending from the way the books were written, the theme, but I can hope right? Ya know, happy ending, where they live for the rest of their lives in peace. Nope, lol. Still a great series though.
 
DragonOfTheAerie

DragonOfTheAerie

Istari
SaltyDog said:
Lol. I'm always hoping for a better ending, but how it really turns out? Only the paper and the pen truly know.
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I would at least like to leave my main characters and their love interests alive. Scarred and crippled both physically and mentally, yes, but alive. I'm actually scared for the life of one of the MC's love interests. I'm not planning on him dying, but, honestly, do i have any control over it?? It could happen and I would have to just watch.

After reading a depressing ending that left me depressed for two weeks, i have no desire to do anything similar...I don't want to have my readers invest emotionally in a story only to end it in a cheaply manipulative way and leave them feeling like life is pointless (not to mention poison them against reading my future books or recommending my books...)

Happy ending? I would like one, yeah. Happily ever after? Nah. No one gets one of those. Life goes on. You have to live with the scars of your past and carry on into the battles of the future.
 
S

SaltyDog

Mystagogue
For me? I don't know. Lol probably not. "I've killed a lot of people, and I'm not afraid to fill even more graves before this is finished." Says the serial writer. Lol I don't even know if there can be an ending where the good guys are still alive. (I wonder if I would publicly committing suicide with my career as a writer if I did that.
 
DragonOfTheAerie

DragonOfTheAerie

Istari
SaltyDog said:
For me? I don't know. Lol probably not. "I've killed a lot of people, and I'm not afraid to fill even more graves before this is finished." Says the serial writer. Lol I don't even know if there can be an ending where the good guys are still alive. (I wonder if I would publicly committing suicide with my career as a writer if I did that.
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If you killed everyone, I probably wouldn't read any more of your stuff...not unless you had a very good reason for it...

Indiscriminate killing is a trend, some kind of badge of merit, I think. Something in us admires the nerve and daring of writers in whose stories no one is safe...I really do hate stories where i feel like there's a shield around the main characters, protecting them from the possibility of harm because the author wouldn't. You KNOW they wouldn't. But i like quality over quantity. Instead of killing lots of people, make the deaths meaningful and painful and horribly cruel.

But...I hate books that make me feel awful anyway. All my friends thought I was crazy when i got so depressed over that one book, but it actually had a terrible effect on my mood and I don't want to go through that again...
 
S

SaltyDog

Mystagogue
Yep, probably shouldn't do it. Not that I don't play with the fantasy, of course. Well, the plot shield is none existent in my world. One of my big three will die most likely. What book got you so depressed?
 
DragonOfTheAerie

DragonOfTheAerie

Istari
I do have some pretty devastating deaths toward the end. A quite large number of them (various depending on how things turn out when i actually WRITE the thing) Also, plenty of torture, mutilation, stuff like that. Fun times.
 
S

SaltyDog

Mystagogue
DragonOfTheAerie said:
I do have some pretty devastating deaths toward the end. A quite large number of them (various depending on how things turn out when i actually WRITE the thing) Also, plenty of torture, mutilation, stuff like that. Fun times.
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Sounds like it! lol. I have a lot reasons though if I want to kill a bunch of people, the setting is in a continent torn to shreds by a massive civil war , so you could imagine all the fun I could have with it, lol.
 
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